Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[George Hatch]

This is a no brainier as a lose for appraisers regarding AMC and a portion of lender work. Right now, there is no/little private client limitation on geo area (outside of license) any geo area limitations tends to be fannie/lender work

Especially if Hybrids take over any significant market share. , fees will take a nosedive. Hybrids allows the desk appraiser, fee or staff, to compete far more volume as the desk appraiser does not have to inspect. If staff appraiser output vastly increase it means many staff appraisers will be let go, as well as less work reach the fee panel. It also means means the appraiser coach type of fee appraisers can triple their volume as they whip out desk work sending inspector runners out. What does that do to fees? (nosedive down)

The problem with we can compete in their area and they can compete in ours, since low fee is the tie breaker/ decider for a segment of clients, it it puts those who spend more time on a report who wont work dirt cheap in a worse position, because now dirt cheap fee appraisers will be flooding in to do assignments in their area.

People trying to sell the idea that dropping geo competence as a selector /requirement for lender/AMC or fannie work will benefit us, I have a bridge to sell you. Getting appraisers to say geo competence is not needed, paves the way for hybrid and desktop and out of area low fee appraisers going all over. Hope you enjoy seeing your fees plummet and assignments disappear. .

Will the "good " clients some of us still have on lending end be immune to this? Don't count on it They have to compete too and if their competition is slashing fees and using inspector runners, they may have to as well.

Having abandoned all pretense that your primary argument is about anything other than your business interests, let me address that directly. Nobody other than appraisers cares about our business interests. It's not your client's obligation to care about your well being beyond dealing with you fairly per the terms of whatever agreements you enter into. It's not the state's responsibility nor that of The Appraisal Foundation to protect your economic interests. How much you make, how much you like your job, and how satisfied you are with the fees is your responsibility, not theirs'.

The reason your (net) hourly rate would decline in the market is attributable to supply and demand and the principle of substitution. Simple as that. If you need the state to intervene in the market to artificially constrain the supply of appraiser capacity in order to subsidize your income then what you are saying is that you consider yourself part of a class of workers who needs protection by the state from the effects of a free market.

On the other hand, if you actually do consider yourself to be just as good at running a business as any of your competition then you're not going to sweat your ability to compete. You'll have the confidence to understand that if you're putting 1 hour or 5 hours or 10 hours into an assignment that your competition will have to do the same in order to match what you're putting out, and vice versa.

I think your real problem here is that you understand the market for appraisal services is still grossly overserved in relation to the number of people it will actually take to service the long term demand going forward.

And IRL, you're most likely correct about that.

If part of our workload migrates away from 8-hr gigs to 1hr gigs then that's going to require way fewer heads to meet that effective demand than we already have onhand.

Technology strikes again. Can't help that. There's no future in attempting to forestall the march of technology and how it enables us to do more with less. If your current business model is dependent on getting paid the same rate per hour for holding the dumb end of a disto as you get paid for performing the analyses, opinions and conclusions then - whether you recognize it or not - you've got a lot of excess baggage to dump.

Incidentally, if your average earnings amounts to (just to make it simple) $40/hr for everything you do and some of the hours you put in are worth less than others, then that also means that some of the hours you put in are worth MORE than others. So maybe you should be charging more/hour for this more intensive work.

 

[djd09]

"The foundation of the public trust is the appraiser/client relationship."

"The client is not responsible for the public trust in the appraisal profession"

no George no.

 

[J Grant]

As for a state board, it's to everyone's advantage that those entities make competent and ethical decisions. It is not the proper role of government to create the market or pick winners and losers. If you believe in your own abilities then what you need is the fair and level playing field, not a crutch.

You never want to assume more power than you are not also willing to give to your worst enemy. That's why we need a fair, impartial and well informed approach toward the rules and regs in play.

Sure, appraisers should throw away any shred of legislation that might protect appraisers ( a crutch), while lenders and AMC's enjoy a Lear jet worth of govt legislative advantages they've gotten over the years .Is anyone that gullible out there? I know the crutch/govt argument is a hot button, but it is fine for stakeholders to massively benefit it, but not us in even the smallest regard?.

From the bundled fee provision to the recent years legislative changes the Govt has given massive advantages to the lender and AMC interests for GSE work regarding their position with appraisers.

 

[J Grant]

s.

Having abandoned all pretense that your primary argument is about your business interests, let me address that directly. Nobody other than appraisers cares about our business interests. It's not your client's obligation to care about your well being beyond dealing with you fairly per the terms of whatever agreements you enter into. It's not the state's responsibility nor that of The Appraisal Foundation to protect your economic interests. How much you make, how much you like your job, and how satisfied you are with the fees is your responsibility, not theirs'.

The reason your (net) hourly rate would decline in the market is attributable to supply and demand and the principle of substitution. Simple as that. If you need the state to intervene in the market to artificially constrain the supply of appraiser capacity in order to subsidize your income then what you are saying is that you consider yourself part of a class of workers who needs protection by the state from the effects of a free market.

On the other hand, if you actually do consider yourself to be just as good at running a business as any of your competition then you're not going to sweat your ability to compete. You'll have the confidence to understand that if you're putting 1 hour or 5 hours or 10 hours into an assignment that your competition will have to do the same in order to match what you're putting out, and vice versa.

I think your real problem here is that you understand the market for appraisal services is still grossly overserved in relation to the number of people it will actually take to service the long term demand going forward.

And IRL, you're most likely correct about that.

If part of our workload migrates away from 8-hr gigs to 1hr gigs then that's going to require way fewer heads to meet that effective demand than we already have onhand.

Technology strikes again. Can't help that. There's no future in attempting to forestall the march of technology and how it enables us to do more with less. If your current business model is dependent on getting paid the same rate per hour for holding the dumb end of a disto as you get paid for performing the analyses, opinions and conclusions then you've got a lot of excess baggage to dump.

I never denied appraiser business interests was a concern of mine, I said it was in early posts. You however put forth a pretense that the business interests of AMC's and lenders to advantage them from appraisers going along with drop geo competence did not enter into your posts .

You just introduced this poll for a theoretical debate, knowing hybrid acceptance/rulings from state boards and AQB for fannie/lender work can ride on this issue? ( at least DWiley admits it)

The state and govt has already intervened and the intervention has been to benefit lender /AMC interests at our expense. So spare me the ridiculous sermons about protection- the lenders and AMC's are the ones making massive profit from the protections they have gotten..

 

[George Hatch]

"The foundation of the public trust is the appraiser/client relationship."

"The client is not responsible for the public trust in the appraisal profession"

no George no.

Sorry, but the facts are the facts.

I took that line right out of the book. It is the party line. I didn't make it up. Nor did I misunderstand it's meaning the way you just did.

What that line means is other than how you interpreted it. It's not that the client is responsible for the public trust in the appraisal profession, its that how the public comes to perceive the appraisal profession in terms of credibility is dependent on our performance in our assignments, which are engaged and used by these clients. They're the ones who measure what we submit against what they expected, and it is their actions WRT how they use these appraisals that others in the public see.

 

[djd09]

Sorry, but the facts are the facts.

You spin any way you want. They want us to work with crooks, then they should expect crooked results.

 

[J Grant]

GH "I think your real problem here is that you understand the market for appraisal services is still grossly overserved in relation to the number of people it will actually take to service the long term demand going forward.

What a joke, when so much of the basis for asking for legislative change comes from stakeholders concerned about a "Shortage " of appraisers.

I give you credit for verbal tap dancing, you manage to shift arguments all over the aisle similar to how politicians do.

 

[djd09]

They should just rename the TAF to Wells Fargo compliance department.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Whatever enables a non-local appraiser to compete with you for your assignments also enables you to compete with them for their assignments.

Then why license anyone. Banks don't want it. No one else requires it.

 

[DWiley]

You keep asserting that someone or some entity is pushing for elimination of geo competency. Who do you perceive as doing that, because you are the only one I have heard sing that particular song.