Where Do You Think "geographic Competency" Begins And Ends?

[timd354]

I'm not bitter. I spent the last 11 years working in appraisal and I care about it. I am angry that George thinks the only reason or case for raising qualifications is money. And now he is in this thread watering down the importance of local expertise. I don't know where he gets his kool aid.

Bitter, angry....two sides of the same coin. George's view is legitimate even if you disagree with it. If he truly believes that a college degree is not necessary prerequisite for becoming a competent residential appraiser (and he does seem to truly believe that), then there is no reason for you to be angry. If he is correct in his view (I am not saying that he is) that a college degree requirement contributes little or nothing to the ability to become a competent residential appraiser, then he would be correct in his assessment that a college degree requirement would be nothing more than an unnecessary barrier to entry of potential competitors for existing appraisers. I don't agree with George's opinion on this matter, but his position on this matter is not completely off the wall and his arguments in support of his position are not illogical.

 

[George Hatch]

Then I ask you again, why have a college degree requirement for the CG license?

I don't think that's necessary either. The same 7-specific-course alternative we had before was plenty - in my opinion. I've never said otherwise.

I personally worked for 2 commercial appraisers who hadn't graduated from college, one of whom was the chief appraiser at the bank I was working at, and the other was my supervisor at that bank when I moved to an outlying branch office. They had adequate academic skills for what they were doing, too.

I've known a fairly good number of practicing CGs over the years who never made it through a 4yr degree. True story.

 

[J Grant]

I'm not suggesting that, nor am I even assuming that you're capable of doing what I do. The cumulative pass rate for the Income Cap course itself was only 55%, so not everyone who takes it has what it takes to pass that course; as is also the case with the licensing exam.

What I am saying is that you had to fight and beat the odds just to get into the business, and now you have to fight to find a niche you can live with. If you had pursued getting on the VA panel you might not be in the position you're in. If you had moved to a COW state or to some niche in your own state that isn't as overserved you might not be in the position you're in. If you had been lucky with a client or two, or if you had taken a salaried job on an appraisal staff or if you had gone to work for the government or any of a dozen other alternatives your current situation as a member of an extremely large herd might be different than it is now.

Please stop making this about ME. I am fine, i have several very good non AMC direct order good pay lender clients and work with in addition to them two reasonable pay AMC clients ( and also have other appraisal work such as review and REO/other such as some complex property work )

Do you think I am spending all this time posting here, to benefit my financial situation ? Wasting time here instead of appraising for $ y does not accomplish that. I am posting, though you may not believe it and TMD makes snide comments. for concern about the profession in general. And yeah, I like calling out abuses, in other areas not just this. If years down the road on slim chance it results in an economic benefit for me I of course would welcome it but doubt these posts will have any immediate benefit.

Why are you constantly making this about what any of us as individuals are doing, rather than exploring if it might be hurting the profession? Either you don't think it is, or don't' care that it is., or you support the interests of those that benefit from the current get the $ from appraiser rather than a cost plus or similar system. Which is fine, but wish you could be upfront about it.

 

[George Hatch]

I'm not bitter. I spent the last 11 years working in appraisal and I care about it. I am angry that George thinks the only reason or case for raising qualifications is money. And now he is in this thread watering down the importance of local expertise. I don't know where he gets his kool aid.

The whole point of this thread is to suss out exactly what it takes to become competent in an assignment, whether the issue relates to the location or not. I have never advocated in favor of incompetent appraisal practice.

 

[timd354]

I don't think that's necessary either. The same 7-specific-course alternative we had before was plenty - in my opinion. I've never said otherwise.

I personally worked for 2 commercial appraisers who hadn't graduated from college, one of whom was the chief appraiser at the bank I was working at. They had adequate academic skills for what they were doing, too. I've known a fairly good number of practicing CGs who never made it through a 4yr degree. True story.

One thing that I have observed about George over the years is that he is one of a small hand full of people on the AF who is able to intellectually divorce himself from what his in his economic interests and all the attached emotions that go along with that and provide an honest objective opinion about a lot of the issues affecting our profession. Of course, that does not mean that he is always correct, but it is a good reason take what he says a lot more seriously than some of the other folks on here

 

[George Hatch]

Please stop making this about ME. I am fine, i have several very good non AMC direct order good pay lender clients and work with in addition to them two reasonable pay AMC clients ( and also have other appraisal work such as review and REO/other such as some complex property work )

Do you think I am spending all this time posting here, to benefit my financial situation ? Wasting time here instead of appraising for $ y does not accomplish that. I am posting, though you may not believe it and TMD makes snide comments. for concern about the profession in general. And yeah, I like calling out abuses, in other areas not just this. If years down the road on slim chance it results in an economic benefit for me I of course would welcome it but doubt these posts will have any immediate benefit.

Why are you constantly making this about what any of us as individuals are doing, rather than exploring if it might be hurting the profession? Either you don't think it is, or don't' care that it is., or you support the interests of those that benefit from the current get the $ from appraiser rather than a cost plus or similar system. Which is fine, but wish you could be upfront about it.

i'll make you a deal. When you stop framing "hurting the profession" in economic terms I'll stop responding to those references.

 

[George Hatch]

One thing that I have observed about George over the years is that he is one of a small hand full of people on the AF who is able intellectually divorce himself from what his in his economic interests and all the attached emotions that go along with that and provide an honest objective opinion about a lot of the issues affecting our profession. Of course, that does not mean that he is always correct, but it is a good reason take what he says a lot more seriously than some of the other folks on here

I do not mind one little bit if we discuss the economic ramifications and business interests of the profession because I think those are valid and legitimate issues to discuss. Let's do that, openly and in exactly those terms.

But if the topic of a discussion is how to develop a competency you didn't initially start out with at the outset of an assignment then injecting the non-sequitur of competition control into that discussion doesn't lead us to an informed opinion about the initial question. If the question is about what passes for meaningful and not misleading to intended users then injecting the non-sequitur of competition control into that discussion doesn't lead us to an informed opinion about that initial question. If the question is about what what will improve the public's perception of our profession then injecting the non-sequitur of competition control into that discussion doesn't lead us to an informed opinion about that initial question. Etc., etc.

 

[J Grant]

i'll make you a deal. When you stop framing "hurting the profession" in economic terms I'll stop responding to those references.

Hurting the profession in economic terms can and does also hurt it in nearly every aspect. How can you deny that?

For example, do you think the economic benefit of starving appraisers out to an under supply due to low AMC payout is going to help the profession or hurt it, and likewise what impact would that have on borrowers and lenders?

Do you think the AMC practice of awarding by low fee which means a less experienced appraiser might be geting 15 hours a week ( economic benefit to them), while more experienced appraises on panel get none , (economic harm to them ) leading experienced, quality minded appraisers to leave GSE work, either to quit or pursue commercial or private work- result is the appraiser doing 15 a week needs to pump them out with short cuts, do you think that economic imbalance hurts or harms the appraisal profession? (and by extension users and borrowers)

It is hypocritical, for TMD himself who borught it up, to take the position that economic imbalances do not hurt the profession. The 2 examples I gave are limited to keep post short.

 

[George Hatch]

WRT "hurting the profession" let me ask everyone this:

How often in your career has a client asked about your academic education whilst deciding whether or not to engage you?

How often have you made it onto an approval panel or been awarded an assignment because you had the degree and the next person didn't?

If you've ever worked on staff, do you think your academic education a factor in that hiring decision, or was it just a checkbox or did they even bother to ask you.


I do not expect the answers to any of these questions to go all in one direction. All "yes" or all "no". I am interested in your direct and indirect experiences with these issues, though.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

For example, do you think the economic benefit of starving appraisers out to an under supply due to low AMC payout is going to help the profession or hurt it, and likewise what impact would that have on borrowers and lenders?

That does not have a bearing on competency to perform an assignment. Stick to the point of George's post #737.