1004p

[Michigan CG]

....Advantage - Appraisal Shop Disadvantage - Solo, garage dwelling appraiser

I am solo, not in my garage. Back in 2003 saw an MAI take his office into his very nice basement; most appraisers are working out of their home........You have an office and pay for that office/utilities/CAM based on $300-$325 fees?

I have NEVER completed a report for $300 or $325, even in the "bad times".

How do you save time with this? You are doing both the inspection and report just like you do now.

 

[J Grant]

The inspection only fee should be in the range of a final inspection fee; say $125-$150. That would put the 1004P report at $300 - $325. (based on fees in this area). I've got appraisers who would, if they could, sit in the office all day and create reports, never again drive anywhere; and I have others who would prefer to be outside all day driving around doing inspections. This hybrid system would work perfectly for us; we can offer to provide both services.....an appraiser on the inspection....another appraiser completing the report. I believe we would be more efficient and be able to complete more reports in a more timely manor. As long as the fees stay the same, and I don't see why not....same fee, better service for the client. I'm thinking this Hybrid thing just might be the way to go.....I need to look into this pronto as some here are saying the report is now being ordered.

Traditional: 3 appraisers each complete 17 reports per month = 51 reports.

Hybrid: 1 appraiser inspects 3.3 homes per day = 67 per month. 2 other appraisers averaging 5 hrs
per appraisal report at 8 hrs per work day = 1.6 appraisal reports per day x 21 work days per month = 67

Same three appraisers = 31% more production = more money for all. (Person inspecting appears to have the best deal on the surface- - unless each of your field inspections are taking over 2 hours - perhaps the inspecting appraiser fills out the Subject section of the report, add maps, photos, etc)

Advantage - Appraisal Shop Disadvantage - Solo, garage dwelling appraiser

From what I understand, the 1004 P is in a test pilot phase, Fannie comparing having the inspection done by an appraiser, vs a RE agent or other (such as home inspector).

An AMC (or whoever is assigning ) during the test phase will be on their best behavior and thus pa y reasonable fee of $150 for the inspection . But once the test phase is over and it hits the market, expect AMC's to return to paying low fees., If the 1004 P inspection portion can be done by a non appraiser, you will be competing with RE agents/others, How low will AMC's or inspection companies pay when they can pit appraises against RE agents to get the cheaper inspection fee?

More money for all....I doubt it. Fees will likely be lower than in the test phase, with non appraisers doing many of the inspections . (unless the 1004P changes) There will be no additional appraisal volume, so where will "more money" come from? Remember Fannie is trying to fob these off as saying consumers $- if a borrower's appraisal charge is lower for a 1004 P (unknown if that will happen ) but if it does happen, than everybody gets paid less.

Add in the appraisers working at desk can pump out more reports and also appraise in further geo areas since they don't have to drive to the property- what do you think that will do to fees?

 

[Evincere]

I can live with $150 to do something similar to a 1004d. But they would need to send multiple properties so that I could maximize my time. Give me at least three I can do in one day and I would do that.

The 1004P is nothing like the 1004d

 

[ucbruin]

FYI, I did provide my name and license info on the form....
I'm assuming the appraiser who uses the data I collected will be provided my name....

There was no language on the letter of engagement (that I read) that mentioned that the inspector/me has to respond to the appraiser....

 

[J Grant]

were you provided a checklist or format to fill out, and did you make any narrative comments,

Were you asked to rate property was good/avg etc, or not at all ( I bet not, that would be an opinion, ) or check off facts- property has a composition tile roof, but make no opinion about the roof? State if you saw damage of the roof ?

 

[ucbruin]

were you provided a checklist or format to fill out, and did you make any narrative comments,

Were you asked to rate property was good/avg etc, or not at all ( I bet not, that would be an opinion, ) or check off facts- property has a composition tile roof, but make no opinion about the roof? State if you saw damage of the roof ?

As I stated earlier form was 99.9% the same as 1004 form....

Yes provided my opinion of Q & C ratings....

Had a section for narrative that I used to list update/remodel, room additions, obsolescence, etc....

The only real difference, the .1% difference, was the form asked to have floor coverings, interior/exterior wall materials broken down by %.

Really minimal/no learning curve....

 

[mike32716]

As I stated earlier form was 99.9% the same as 1004 form....

Yes provided my opinion of Q & C ratings....

Had a section for narrative that I used to list update/remodel, room additions, obsolescence, etc....

The only real difference, the .1% difference, was the form asked to have floor coverings, interior/exterior wall materials broken down by %.

Really minimal/no learning curve....

You, being an appraiser, are competent to make an opinion on Q&C. A Craig's List hire is not.

If the desktop appraiser sees or uses those opinions of Q&C then they have relied upon the work of others. Q&C is a significant contribution to the appraisal. Although it may be that the desktop appraiser never sees your opinion of Q&C in that FNMA is comparing your opinion with the appraisers opinion (based on photos) to see what kind of variance they get given that this is in the test phase.

And as for fees, forget it. Mueller currently charges the client $140 for the inspection and $140 for the desktop if needed. The fees I am seeing for the "data collectors" are in the neighborhood of $30-40, and that does not include expenses. So, say the data collector gets $40 and the appraiser gets $150, that leaves the AMC with $90 along with the need to manage two separate processes.

 

[Fnbpos]

I am solo, not in my garage. Back in 2003 saw an MAI take his office into his very nice basement; most appraisers are working out of their home........You have an office and pay for that office/utilities/CAM based on $300-$325 fees?

I have NEVER completed a report for $300 or $325, even in the "bad times".

How do you save time with this? You are doing both the inspection and report just like you do now.

Yep...I'm doing it all wrong....one of the biggest residential shops in town.....yep...all wrong

For the record, we do not accept ANY assignments at $300 or 325 or 350 or 375...should I keep going....I can

The 300-$325 fee is a projected fee for the possible soon to be 1004P form (NOT the current 1004 form with interior inspection)....you know, the hybrid appraisal done in the office ...that was inspected by someone else and is the entire point of this thread.

What i'm saying is.... we will attempt to complete both parts of the appraisal; the inspection part at $125-$150 and the 1004P report at $300-$325.. having a different appraiser complete each.

That brings the total fee for the "assignment" (i.e 2 part assignment)….to about 450.....and that is for a non-complex run of the mill property only.

I spend most days bidding out higher fees here in South Florida; our average fee is well above 450

It appears possible that splitting the assignment into two parts each completed by a different appraiser may be more efficient and generate more reports each month...

Maybe.....maybe not

 

[Fnbpos]

You, being an appraiser, are competent to make an opinion on Q&C. A Craig's List hire is not.

If the desktop appraiser sees or uses those opinions of Q&C then they have relied upon the work of others. Q&C is a significant contribution to the appraisal. Although it may be that the desktop appraiser never sees your opinion of Q&C in that FNMA is comparing your opinion with the appraisers opinion (based on photos) to see what kind of variance they get given that this is in the test phase.

And as for fees, forget it. Mueller currently charges the client $140 for the inspection and $140 for the desktop if needed. The fees I am seeing for the "data collectors" are in the neighborhood of $30-40, and that does not include expenses. So, say the data collector gets $40 and the appraiser gets $150, that leaves the AMC with $90 along with the need to manage two separate processes.

This will never see the light of day at those fees.....same work performed just spread out among different people.... Users might expected faster turn times; but if they are trying to save money....not a chance.

 

[Deleted member 128537]

1. I question the competency of many appraisers to adequately rate the property based upon UAD guidelines based upon the reviews I have completed. I just don’t think it’s that hard when properly trained to do inspections.
2. If you don’t know the neighborhood then refuse the assignment. I appraise in one county and I’ve been to about every nook in it. All I have to do is observe the overhead photos from the county to see for external obsolescence. It isn’t that hard.
3. Filling out the 1004 and running comparables doesn’t take that long for non-complex properties.
4. The accuracy of the report will of course be determined by the scope of work. If these reports are used for home equity loans with limited borrowing I just don’t see the problem.
5. If you have other work to do that pays higher fees then don’t do them. Simple as that.
6. There are probably many appraisers out there that could benefit from these types of assignments; retired, those that have to take care of children, disabled, etc. The fact they don’t have to leave the house and can work for $50 an hour is a good thing.
7. There have always been desktops, drivebys, etc that have been done for cheaper fees. In fact look at all those BPO’s out there.

My fees are pretty high. $500 is my base fee. So clearly I’m not advocating for low fees. We can gripe, moan, and get upset, but this is the world we live in.

If you are an appraiser and rely exclusively on lender work then expect lenders to look for ways to reduce their costs and get the job done. That’s economic reality.