Significant Appraisal Assistance (1004p)

[J Grant]

So I guess before computers there was no such thing as data ? How about those thousands of old file cabinets we have in the basement of the county assessors office or in local building departments. What if I make photo copies and use that information I guess that's not data ? God thousands of years of pre-computer information down the drain. BUT NOPE it's not data unless it is on a computer.

Now let's go to significant assistance we have those on the forum who interpret this as being anyone else that physically inspects , measures and takes photos BUT USPAP is clear saying that it applies if another appraiser is doing that work ?

A non-licensed person who was not engaged by the appraiser is simply providing data and information and if they play no part in assisting in the development of a final opinion of market value they have no more and in some cases less impact then what information I use from my local MLS and agents. Say I use 5 sale's comparables and all my adjustments are based on what the Realtor reported in their listing ? So I assume whoever measured the house knew what the hell they were doing ? I then depend on the MLS Interior photos to help establish the condition adjustments and I read the agents comments to glean other information. So I am depending on other non-appraisers data and information ? Do I have to report them as contributing significant assistance ? WHY NOT I just adjusted 5-comparables all based on secondary sources and In many cases I have no idea if the Realtors provided accurate data and information. What about those photo shopped interior photos- What condition was that bad boy really in ?

So based on my daily use of data and information provided by local Realtors why would a third party inspection on a Hybrid be any more or any less significant assistance ? If so then we are really screwed because now we need to list every listing agents name license number and declare that without their data and information we could not have arrived at a OMV and that seems fairly significant to me.

Comp-1 MLS#IV19692 - MLS shows 2,000 Sq.Ft- two story-4 bedrooms-3 baths-and the agents comments stated the interior was recently remodeled with a kitchen that featured granite counter tops-viking commercial stainless steel appliances and solid oak wood cabinetry. The agent also stated there was a large family room addition with permits but county records did not show it so her husband measured the house. We asked her if he was a licensed appraiser and she said no he drives a UPS truck but he measures large shipping containers from 6:Am to 10:AM with a 100 foot cloth tape and he has a Home Depot Master-Max Professional grade tool that shoots red-dots on walls. Question: Karen did you or anyone else physically touch or hold that tape or laser tool ? She says yes and I even wrote down some measurements on a large piece of graph paper. I scream I think you may have contributed significant appraisal assistance because now I am depending on your non-licensed measurements and photos to derive adjustments. she screams back lighten up it's no big deal the appraiser came in at contract price and even he was not as paranoid as you and he even asked for a copy of our measurements because he said it may save home 30 minutes or more if they looks right.

Question to Karen the top ten billion dollar producer in my market .When the home was appraised did the real appraiser come up with the same measurements as your husbands ? Yes or No - Yes like I told you he used our measurements and he was spot on and since he came in at contract price it really didn't matter anyway. Great thanks Karen I really appreciate your husbands great inspection- photos and measurements maybe he should consider becoming a professional Hybird inspection Associate with Bulls Eye and Speedy Appraisal Management Company. He can pick up an-extra $50.00 bucks a week on the side and that buys a lot of beer. Response: Thanks Angry-Cat those other creeps never try to help us Realtors and when we ask them questions or tell them we only need $500,000 they get all uppity and start talking about something called USPAP and Appraiser Independence. What a crock no wonder everyone hates most of you guys.

Wow glad that's over now all I have to figure out is what's the difference between data and information ? and since that no good Mc-Fugal USPAP instructor gave me a hard copy handbook that kind of screw's me up because my USPAP compliant expert on the forum says data has to be generated from a computer ?

I give up and now I know why my father told me to get a career in the Navy and ditch appraising and USPAP issues.

I also included documents in my description of data.

However, data these days to most people means computer data.

Do an experiment : Ask family and friends /others ( who are not in the field nor read this thread ) what comes to mind when they hear the term "data collection"

After they answer, ask them if it occurred to them that it might mean an "appraisal inspection."

 

[J Grant]

RE agents who provide data on comps did not do so for appraisal of the subject or appraisal purpose ! They entered data for THEIR professional purpose (listing/marketing) Therefore we do not say they provided appraisal assistance since they never intended it for an appraisal we would use. This his inane straw dog comparison never was raised prior to this- Furthermore, we identify the agent on a comp as a source in the report, so it is clear what their role and contribution is.

Whereas the person sent to inspect/ the subject did so for use in the appraisal and for purpose of reliance in the appraisal. And we rely far more heavily on it since it information about the subject of our appraisal)

 

[George Hatch]

It's still the appraiser who has *analyze* the information at hand to form the basis of the comparisons that follow. The non-appraiser inspector not only doesn't do that for the appraiser, they basically can't do that.

How can an appraiser rate a comparable as being superior, equal or inferior than the subject in a particular aspect without also having an opinion about the subject to begin with?

 

[J Grant]

It's still the appraiser who has *analyze* the information at hand to form the basis of the comparisons that follow. The non-appraiser inspector not only doesn't do that for the appraiser, they basically can't do that.

True . But they still inspected the subject for reliance in an appraisal, and the appraiser's reliance on it is substantial enough to have a significant impact on assignment results

 

[Eli]

True . But they still inspected the subject for reliance in an appraisal, and the appraiser's reliance on it is substantial enough to have a significant impact on assignment results

Just let them go do it and send it to the lender. Let the Loan officer do an evaluation. Leave the appraiser part out of it and disclose it as something on the truth in lending disclosures. NOT an appraisal. Let the loan officer or AMC send a copy of their valuation to the borrower. THE AMC won't work then because it won't be an appraisal.

There you go. Just send an "inspector" or "data collector" to inspect. Send the info to the loan officer. Let them send a copy of their valuation to the borrower. Professional appraisers will see the other side and advertise for that side.

It needs to be disclosed clearly on truth in lending disclosures that they are not getting an appraisal from a professional appraiser in the above scenario.

 

[glenn walker]

I also included documents in my description of data.

However, data these days to most people means computer data.

Do an experiment : Ask family and friends /others ( who are not in the field nor read this thread ) what comes to mind when they hear the term "data collection"

After they answer, ask them if it occurred to them that it might mean an "appraisal inspection."

They would say they googled it !!!

 

[George Hatch]

True . But they still inspected the subject for reliance in an appraisal, and the appraiser's reliance on it is substantial enough to have a significant impact on assignment results

There's no place like home
There's no place like home
There's no place like home


Q: What data that appraisers use in an appraisal do we not rely upon, or if inaccurate would not have a substantial impact on assignment results? We routinely make so many assumptions about the data we use that we list a bunch of those assumptions in every report we sign.

 

[J Grant]

Appraiser's are good at finding out what data to use and what not to use- if we ever fail at that, and it substantially affects an appraisal- it is unfortunate, but like any professional in any field, a fail can happen. Appraisers do their best to avoid it and have E and O what else can we do? The short turn times btw are the enemy of vetting and verifying and researching the data. .

But it is not about data per se, its about this (from the article inMortgage news about hybrids: )

"The disadvantages are obviously it's a different pair of eyeballs out there and boots on the ground writing the report," he continued. "The guy writing the report can't really know what the other guy saw out there. You don't have a real, true licensed appraiser noticing all those nuances."

The article lists pros and cons, the pros are speed and reduced costs.. (business related)

Too bad USPAP did not define an inspection done for the purpose of appraisal as appraisal practice, because that would have avoided this whole thing.

Other professions don;t have that happen, only in appraisals thanks to the fail of USPAP. A dentist can let a dental assistant examine a patient but the assistant is licensed for it and supervised -(as an appraisal trainee is) . A dentist does not have random people who took a webinar examining their patients .

 

[chad hampton]

USPAP didn't make it clear because it used to be unthinkable that anyone other than an appraiser would be doing an inspection of the subject property. Most of the time the obvious doesn't need to be stated. It defies logic than if an appraiser does something then it's one thing, but if an re agent does the same thing, then it's something else.

I can't broker a deal to buy/sell real estate then claim I wasn't acting in a roll of a agent/broker - I was just helping these guys buy a house for a commission. Defies logic.

AMC's are mostly now large corporations, squeezing out every last penny of profit from employees and contractors is a cornerstone of their way of life. They have a whole staff of guys in suits thinking this sh*t up.

Acting in a role of an appraiser w/o holding an active appraisal license is a crime in my state. I bet it also is in yours.

 

[Michigan CG]

Umm...why is this topic 18 pages long?

Should of ended post #2

You do know you get a copy of the inspection report with a name on it right?

“Bill Smith did xxxxxxxxxx”

And case closed. As in end of discussion.

That is not correct. No name is on the inspection sent to the appraiser in most cases.