California Licensing Fees Increased to $1,030 Every Two Years

[TRESinc]

granted ohio is cheaper than cali, not only for our licensing but just about everything else, but your fees equate to 1 or maybe 1.5 reports PER YEAR. it can't be that hard to make up one extra report every 365 days...

This is getting ridiculous. On top of appraiser fees getting squeezed, now we have to pay $1,030 to renew our licenses because there are fewer appraisers.

could be worse. it could be $5,000 annually like the AMCs...

"2. Appraisers will have to increase fees; but, there is more than enough leeway to do that."

If raising fees were so easy....
Why are so many folks saying today's fees are the same as they were 20-30 years....

because they have no idea how to increase their fees, are too afraid to raise their fees which they think may result in lost clients or simply they just don't produce a report with enough quality content to deserve a fee increase. based upon this board it seems those who have the hardest time raising their fees have the majority, if not all, of their work provided by the lowest hanging fruit in appraising - AMCs. most appraisers are not good business people it seems. i have never had a problem raising my fees and it happens almost every 12 months, sometimes more often.

Why no comments so far on the yearly fee increases to AMC's and course providers? Is the impact going to result in fewer AMC's and a consolidation in the industry?

at $5,000/year for renewal it should kill off some of them.

 

[ucbruin]

"because they have no idea how to increase their fees, are too afraid to raise their fees which they think may result in lost clients or simply they just don't produce a report with enough quality content to deserve a fee increase. based upon this board it seems those who have the hardest time raising their fees have the majority, if not all, of their work provided by the lowest hanging fruit in appraising - AMCs. most appraisers are not good business people it seems. i have never had a problem raising my fees and it happens almost every 12 months, sometimes more often."

While other appraisers are just not good people it seems....

 

[Tim The Enchanter]

While other appraisers are just not good people it seems....

Ah well, going back to kindergarten and earlier, in any group, some people are just jerks.

 

[RCA]

Change is inevitable but your constant harping that Regression is the greatest thing since sliced bread is going to meet Keto and low carb as one diet doesn't fit everyone. I dare say that in rural areas like my own, Regression is like teats on a Boar Hog. Put there for some reason but totally useless. I have market derived proof every time I see a Zestimate from the industry leader in Regression analysis in the world. Keep on preaching. When do you launch your software?

Of course you have to have data to do regression, in particular at least half a dozen sales comparables - the trick here is to replicate the 6 appraisals 3 time over to get MARS to even work. You will get adjustments - but the value of the adjustments is reduced because you have created sales comps that don't exist. Yet, your adjustments so derived from the regression through duplication of data are going to be just as good as by any other mehod, e.g. matched pair analysis. If all you have is 3-6 comps for your subject, any quantitative analytical method you choose, will be no stronger than MARS.

Or in other words, with respect to the SCA, you actually can't do any better than MARS for extracting adjustments. Just give me a set of data.

Generally speaking, I have never seen a single report by any appraiser that is "avante garde". I don't care where - in the biggest commercial appraisal corporations or wherever. All other appraisers are living in the bronze age. This is because:

1. They don't know how to use a good regression tool to get past Stage I.
2. They don't know how to calibrate their methods for subjective analysis; - to contain and measure their errors.

Worst of all they let their IMPORTANT clients dictate what they do, thereby corrupting those parts of their appraisal that are injected with client bias and/or stupidity, as well as the overall idiocy of the system as a whole.

.....

 

[RCA]

Can you improve the algorithm that changed the world of real estate?

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Bert, are you in the running for the prize money?

Can you improve the algorithm that changed the world of real estate?

$1,200,000 Prize Money

Zillow Prize: Zillow’s Home Value Prediction (Zestimate)

Can you improve the algorithm that changed the world of real estate?

www.kaggle.com

Bert, are you in the running for the prize money?

That 2017 contest is long since over. - I never heard about it until earlier this year. However, IMO, Zillow's accuracy has been getting crazy worse. RedFin is more accurate.

What I am interested in is a much higher degree of accuracy - one that requires dealing with the qualitative features that require human judgment in addition to regression. And, black-box methods have to be avoided for appraisal. It's MARS plus Hubbard's Calibration, plus some creative ideas for dealing with home pricing data.

 

[DTB]

It's easy to raise your fees. - As long as you have backup work, like a second or third occupation.

When appraisal becomes adjunct income is when the cost/income ratio really begins to suck. Licensing fees, MLS fees, E&0 fees, software subscriptions, Continuing Ed fees for a less than full income stream?

No bueno.

 

[DTB]

granted ohio is cheaper than cali, not only for our licensing but just about everything else, but your fees equate to 1 or maybe 1.5 reports PER YEAR. it can't be that hard to make up one extra report every 365 days...

Isn't that the argument used to justify ALL things being expensed to the appraiser?

How long is this nonsense revision really going to take?
How long does it take make sure every commode is photographed?
How much more time does it take to add interior walls to a sketch?
Ad infinitum....

The answer is always, it will take more time and money than they are willing to pay.

 

[Randolph Kinney]

What I am interested in is a much higher degree of accuracy - one that requires dealing with the qualitative features that require human judgment in addition to regression. And, black-box methods have to be avoided for appraisal. It's MARS plus Hubbard's Calibration, plus some creative ideas for dealing with home pricing data.

I believe that's what Zillow and others want too. If your method has any merit, Zillow would be paying you millions for it. If your method is job specific labor intensive suitable for one time use only reinventing the wheel for each neighborhood and time interval, then good luck with your method.

 

[TRESinc]

The answer is always, it will take more time and money than they are willing to pay.

if what you say were true none of us would be here right now. every now and then we all get that doozy of an order but if you price your product accordingly that should be the exception and not the norm. not every order is going to result in more money in your pocket, that just how business works. the flip side is that you also get ones that are so easy you know yourself you are being overpaid, we've all been there my personal favorites are the apartment-styled condos where everything is exactly the same except for floor coverings and appliances.

i must admit i was wrong earlier in my thinking. i misread the thread and thought the new cost was $1,030 per year when in reality it is half that, so about 20-50% of an appraisal's cost increase annually. one could do as Can suggested and raise their fees to cover it like other business owners do when their costs increase. an appraiser could do 15 appraisals a month, 11 months out of the year leaving time for a vacation, and only need to raise their fees by $2 to cover the new cost. one could even go for $5 but i like Can's suggestion of $20 better. nice round number.

 

[Joe Flacco]

That's why appraisers should consolidate into groups/partnerships of 10. One individual appraiser just doesn't have any kind of leverage. And then maybe two or three partnerships can merge down the line into a partnership of 20-30.