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California Licensing Fees Increased to $1,030 Every Two Years

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There are plenty of good appraisers on this site who have been in business for decades, the feat and famine, while may part timers, trainees, etc have come and gone so Bert i think your wrong. Over the decades the cycle have increased and when it slows down, the ones work for 1/2 of 1/2 of a fee can not stay in business. I think at this point, in So Cal, the number of appraiser's is about twice as high as it should be

I think you are saying the same thing I am. Although, I am not sure what you mean by 1/2 fee. Fees are fees. The fees are typically the same for everyone, regardless - assuming their work is acceptable. That is one of the big complaints on this forum. A few appraisers have their infrastructure so efficiently set up, they can turn out 4-8 times the appraisals another appraiser could - so I have been told. If the BREA increases their fee to $5000, it is just a bump in the road for these guys.

The less efficient. and also the semi-retired appraisers simply cannot do the volume to withstand the hypothetical fee hike to $5000. So, I think you have your logic messed up, you are saying the same as what I said, pretty much, - and nobody works at 1/2 fee - whatever you mean by that.

If I wanted to, I am capable of setting up a highly efficient system for doing FNMA appraisals. It's just that I would be chained to maintaining a boring system for years to come. My life squandered on nothing but making money to turn out a crummy product for a technology that people will dismiss as highly inferior, years from now. Nope, it's just not interesting. Then if you ever get tied down in a lawsuit, that's just another grind to make your life miserable.

At an abstract level, appraisal is highly interesting. In terms of down-to-earth regulatory focused appraisal work, much of it is kind of routine; the excitement, intellectual stimulation and strees is the process of developing the pieces and putting them together into a final report as a kind of game to see if you can get it all done before the bell rings. Some of us get bored and wind up making the game more difficult, at the cost of reducing profitability. (Well, that's one cynical way of looking at it.)
 
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High licensing cost serves as a barrier to enter the field of appraising as did the increase in education requirement. It will kill off the supply of new appraisers.

Depleting overall supply of appraisers will increase fees. However, that will bring forth alternatives to using an appraiser which will limit fee increases.
 
High licensing cost serves as a barrier to enter the field of appraising as did the increase in education requirement. It will kill off the supply of new appraisers.

Depleting overall supply of appraisers will increase fees. However, that will bring forth alternatives to using an appraiser which will limit fee increases.

Sometimes the only way to build something new is to demolish the existing. USPAP is such a tangled mess, along with the whole system with GSEs and AMCs and lenders and banks, that moving to Valuation Engineering proceeds only through the destruction of the existing system. Most likely it will be choked off through a slow process, and valuation engineering will slowly emerge as a new tributary in the river. Rivers do that sort of thing. Sometimes it takes a good flood to make the change in the course of the river, sometimes it just kind of happens on its own.

The whole concept of letting banks and lenders be involved in reviewing appraisers and assigning orders to them or even any intermediate AMC is one of the most basic flaws of the existing system. That should never have happened. There is a chance in the Trump Administration, something else may be set in motion, but it is not so likely. A change like this will most likely take decades.
 
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Why no comments so far on the yearly fee increases to AMC's and course providers? Is the impact going to result in fewer AMC's and a consolidation in the industry?
 
Why no comments so far on the yearly fee increases to AMC's and course providers? Is the impact going to result in fewer AMC's and a consolidation in the industry?
Not the main driver but yes large AMC's will and consolidate and small ones will close as they don't have the benefit of servicing large lenders and can only work very small niche markets.
 
Bert,
Many of the these national appraisal firms will take an appraisal order from an AMC at as low as $225-$250 (about 1/2 what is should be) and then have their r sfaff or some fee guy doe it at 1/2 that amount or 1/2 of 1/2.
 
Sometimes the only way to build something new is to demolish the existing. USPAP is such a tangled mess, along with the whole system with GSEs and AMCs and lenders and banks, that moving to Valuation Engineering proceeds only through the destruction of the existing system. Most likely it will be choked off through a slow process, and valuation engineering will slowly emerge as a new tributary in the river. Rivers do that sort of thing. Sometimes it takes a good flood to make the change in the course of the river, sometimes it just kind of happens on its own.

The whole concept of letting banks and lenders be involved in reviewing appraisers and assigning orders to them or even any intermediate AMC is one of the most basic flaws of the existing system. That should never have happened. There is a chance in the Trump Administration, something else may be set in motion, but it is not so likely. A change like this will most likely take decades.

Every time the economic cycle has a severe crash, they blame the appraisers. Nothing new has resulted except more regulations on the appraisers. The system is set up to fail. Banks and financial institutions make risky loans. When the cycle reaches its peak, institutions loosen loan standards where people with little money down and low credit scores are given loans. Any loss of income or rising cost of living pushes them into default.

Maybe the solution is a government affordable housing program and rent control? :)
 
Every time the economic cycle has a severe crash, they blame the appraisers. Nothing new has resulted except more regulations on the appraisers. The system is set up to fail. Banks and financial institutions make risky loans. When the cycle reaches its peak, institutions loosen loan standards where people with little money down and low credit scores are given loans. Any loss of income or rising cost of living pushes them into default.

Maybe the solution is a government affordable housing program and rent control? :)

In systems design there is a concept called "Separation of Concerns". It really applies to appraisal.

Things would be much simpler if all that the banks and lenders could do is ask a central location (no choice) for an appraisal using a specific set of requirements such as the definition of Market Value to be used, subject address and so on. [There would have to be guidelines on how far they could go in setting their requirements; possibly just giving them a choice of a set number of options.] If the banks and lenders don't like the options, they should be able to submit a "Change Request" for approval; other than that, they have a specific channel they can go through to get an appraisal, with no way for them to submit their bias in the process.

The central authority for managing order requests could be federal or state; and I would think they could have a combination of staff appraisers plus individual contractors spread out across various locations, as they see fit. Likely most AMCs would disappear; because they are an intermediate cost center perhaps beneficial to manage overflow, - but since they would be out of business without overflow, they wouldn't exist for long. The Central Authority would most likely sub all jobs to individual appraisers, do the review, manage USPAP compliance and probably do everything the State Boards currently do. Very efficient. And that would be good for appraisers.
 
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The world is turning into Tower of Babel, that will fall in on itself. Technology just keeps racing ahead despite human intelligence.

People, i.e. managers and leaders, have to have a good feel for what is going on, what it is all about, what the impact of decisions will have an outcome. It is going to be an increasingly more difficult job to do the valuations that form the backbone of decision making.

There are some people, Hubbard is an example, who are very capable of measuring (valuing) some very difficult things. Here is an example of what he did for the USMC, that is one of my favorites - and there are parallels to appraisal:

Case: Forecasting Fuel for the Marine Corps

In the fall of 2004, I was asked to apply AIE on a very different type of problem from what I was used to in business and government. A highly regarded consulting firm was the contractor on a project with the Office of Naval Research and the U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) to examine ways logistics planners could better forecast fuel requirements for the battlefield. For operations in Iraq, the USMC used hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel per day just for ground units alone. (Aviation used about three times as much.) Running out of fuel was an unacceptable scenario for operational success and for the safety of the Marines on the ground. For planning and logistics purposes, however, logistics managers had to start making preparations 60 days in advance in order to have sufficient fuel in place when needed. Unfortunately, it is impossible to predict precisely what the battlefield requirements will be that far out. Because uncertainty was so high and the risk of running out was unacceptable, the natural reaction is to plan on delivering three or four times as much fuel as best estimates say would be needed. Chief Warrant Officer 5 (CWO5) Terry Kunneman, a 27-year USMC veteran, oversaw policy and procedures for bulk fuel planning at Headquarters Marine Corps. “We knew we were working off of older and less reliable consumption factors. In OIF [Operation Iraqi Freedom], we found that all of the traditional systems we had were not working well. It was garbage in, garbage out,” said CWO5 Kunneman. Luis Torres, the head of the fuel study at the Office of Naval Research, saw the same problems. Torres notes, “This was all part of an overall directive to reduce the consumption of fuel. The problem was brought up to us that the method we were using had inherent errors in the estimating process.” The amount of additional fuel needed for a safety margin was an enormous logistics burden. Fuel depots dotted the landscape. Daily convoys pushed the fuel from one depot to the next depot farther inland. The depots and, especially, the convoys were security risks; Marines had to put themselves in harm’s way to protect the fuel. If the USMC could reduce its uncertainty about fuel requirements, it would not have to have so much fuel on hand and it still would not increase the chance of running out. At the time, the USMC used a fairly simple forecasting model: It counted up all the equipment of different types in the deployed units, then subtracted equipment that was missing due to maintenance, transfer, combat losses, and the like. Then it identified which units would be in “assault” mode and which would be in an “administrative/defensive” mode for approximate periods of time during the next 60 days. Generally, if a unit is in the assault mode, it is moving around more and burning more fuel. Each piece of equipment has a different average consumption measured in gallons per hour and also hours of operation per day. The hours of operation usually increased when the equipment was in a unit that was in assault mode. For each unit, the USMC computed a total daily fuel consumption based on the unit’s equipment and whether it is in the assault mode. Then it added up all the unit fuel consumptions for each day for 60 days. The accuracy and precision of this approach was not very high. Fuel estimates could easily be off by a factor of two or more (hence the large safety margins). Even though I had never before dealt with forecasting supplies for the battlefield, I approached the problem the same way I did any other big measurement problem: using AIE.

Phase 0


In Phase 0, I reviewed several previously conducted studies on armed forces’ fuel requirements. None offered any specific statistical forecasting methods in detail. At best, they talked about potential methods, and only at a high level. Still, they gave me a good background for the nature of the problem. We identified several logistics experts who could participate in the workshops, including CWO5 Kunneman and Luis Torres. Six half-day workshops were scheduled to occur within a three-week period.

Phase 1

The first workshop in Phase 1 was set on defining the forecasting problem. Only then was it clear that the USMC wanted to focus on the total fuel use of ground forces only and for a 60-day period for a single Marine Expeditionary Force (MEF), a force consisting of tens of thousands of Marines. Using the existing fuel forecasting tables we studied in Phase 0, I constructed a series of “where does all the fuel go?” charts. The charts gave everyone on the team (but especially us analysts who didn’t work with this every day) a sense of orders of magnitude about fuel use. It was clear that most of the fuel does not go into tanks or even armored vehicles in general. True, the M-1 Abrams gets a mere third of a mile per gallon, but there are only 58 tanks in an MEF. In contrast, there are over 1,000 trucks and over 1,300 of the now-famous HMMWVs, or Humvees. Even during combat, trucks were burning eight times as much fuel as the tanks. Further discussion about what this equipment is actually doing when it burns fuel caused us to make three different types of models. The biggest part of the model was the convoy model. The vast majority of trucks and Humvees burned most of their fuel as part of a convoy on specific convoy routes. They traveled in round-trip convoys an average of twice a day. Another part of the model was the “combat model.” The armored fighting vehicles, such as the M-1 tank and the Light Armored Vehicles (LAVs), spent less time on convoy routes and tended to burn fuel more as a function of specific combat operations. Finally, all the generators, pumps, and administrative vehicles tended to burn fuel at both a more consistent and much lower rate. For this group, we just used the existing simple hourly consumption rate model. In one of the workshops, the experts were calibrated. All showed a finely tuned ability to put odds on unknowns. They estimated ranges for all the quantities that were previously given only point values. For example, where the seven-ton truck was previously assumed to burn exactly 9.9 gallons per hour, they substituted a 90% CI of 7.8 to 12 gallons per hour. For vehicles typically running in convoys, we had to include ranges for the distance of the typical convoy route and how much route conditions might change fuel consumption. For armored vehicles used in combat operations, we had to estimate a range for the percentage of time they spent in the assault over a 60-day period. These added up to just 52 basic variables describing how much fuel was burned in a 60-day period. Almost all were expressed as 90% CIs. In a way, this was not unlike any business case analysis I had done. But instead of adding up the variables into a cash flow or return on investment, we simply had a total fuel consumption number for the period. A Monte Carlo simulation based on these ranges gave a distribution of possible results that was very similar to the error and distribution of real-life fuel consumption figures.

[Continued]


Hubbard, Douglas W.. How to Measure Anything: Finding the Value of Intangibles in Business (pp. 367-373).
 
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