Give me a break

[djd09]

they designed a system after eappraisit. ironic, eh?

now they cant believe there is number hitting. i cannot stop laughing

 

[NC Appraising]

I am speaking about refis and the magic 80% LTV cutoff. The data on that is quite clear. There is a spike at every LTV % that is meaningful. The data seems to strongly indicate that the “magic number” is being communicated in some manner - unless one believes it is all just a big coincidence

Honest here. It only happens to me about 20% of the time and only about 5% of the time the borrower comes out and tells me what they need.


The 20% of the time the borrower hints that I need it high to get rid of PMI, thats it. . The banks or AMCs never gives me the number needed. Now, I do get the feeling that the LO's are telling the borrowers to do this...BUT it has also been my experience that borrowers are just feeding the lenders with a high estimated value and it just make the LO's mad as they have wasted their time too.

Now, I have been getting from owners that I need it high to get a better rate, and having nothing to do with PMI removal. Cash out refi, with plenty of equity in the home.

The market has appreciated so much that PMI removal is not that big of a issue. It is the ones that just purchased 1-2 years ago that are the problems.

In my area, refi appraisals are probably lower than actual market value due to values rapidly increasing in the past 4 months.

Now, I do know for a fact that appraisers are still doing the 80% math to make the deal work without being asked. I did an appraisal, came in low on a refi for PMI removal. Three weeks later, I got a email from the borrower with the new appraisal and they hit the value needed....80% on a million dollar home. AMC appraiser. Funny thing was that the owner thought the second appraisal was high and did not agree with it? He went on Zillow and looked at the comps that were used and a condition adjustment should have been applied to the best comp. I will admit that this was a complex order and the comps sucked.

 

[NC Appraising]

That is an interesting phenomenon. I get the 'sales price bias' - which I COMPLETELY disagree with - at least as far as the article is concerned. IMO, the reason appraisals quite often come in at contract price is because the SOW (problem to be solved) is slightly different for a purchase than for a refi. I don't believe it is because appraisers are somehow 'pushed' into reconciling to the contract. As regards appraisals 'bunched' at the deciles, I just don't understand how that could be. The appraiser has no idea (on a refi appraisal) what LTV is needed for the loan to work...

"The appraiser has no idea (on a refi appraisal) what LTV is needed for the loan to work..."

Not sure about your State. But most appraisers have Realist or Corelogic that is tied into their MLS system. One simple click, and you can find out what the last purchase price was and the loan amount.

I do it myself. Not to make the loan work, but to make sure my report is bullet proof. I have learned that AMCs and lenders hate solid reports....solid reports means no RCV. No RCV means the appraisal sticks and they are stuck with it. Pisses everyone off.

 

[alebrewer]

One simple click, and you can find out what the last purchase price was and the loan amount.

And how does that tell you what LTV they want now? Or if they're doing a cash out? Or if they've paid a significant amount down and are moving to a 15 year? BTW - non-disclosure states like TX don't give sales price in public records - just lien amount.

 

[NC Appraising]

And how does that tell you what LTV they want now? Or if they're doing a cash out? Or if they've paid a significant amount down and are moving to a 15 year? BTW - non-disclosure states like TX don't give sales price in public records - just lien amount.

It doesn't in all cases. It also shows all past refi amounts also. I think some appraisers still do the math as D has implied. But to take up for appraisers, lenders still run AVMs and then run the numbers before they order the appraisal. So at first look, it may look like appraisers are just hitting the 80% magic number, but in reality if the LO did their job would it not make sense that the appraiser and the 80% need would be close? Similar to purchase appraisals for market value. If the home was exposed to the market with no funny business, the appraised value should be near, the same or close to the contract price. One could easily imply that 90% of appraisers just hit the contract price.....but real estates agent know we are there to keep them in-line and honest, something AVMs cannot do.

 

[J Grant]

I am speaking about refis and the magic 80% LTV cutoff. The data on that is quite clear. There is a spike at every LTV % that is meaningful. The data seems to strongly indicate that the “magic number” is being communicated in some manner - unless one believes it is all just a big coincidence

I have never, ever had a "magic number communicated or hinted to me in a refi since the change post HVCC . I find it hard to believe any loan officer would risk communicating it now nor any legit appraiser ask if of an owner. 80% ltv idk, but prices have risen so people doing refinances now have more equity.

 

[alebrewer]

I find it hard to believe any loan officer would risk communicating it

Another attempt at levity, I presume?

 

[J Grant]

Another attempt at levity, I presume?

No, I assume most loan officers do not want to lose their jobs or license... I have not had a single one put it on an order or communicate it and besides, you of all people should know individual loan officers no longer order the appraisal - even with a direct lender it is all anonymous wrt to "who" ordered it, it comes over a portal with the lender/client name and perhaps a regional staff person or such .

 

[J Grant]

It seems a lot more likely a waiver is prone to hit the value, since in a waiver the loan officer DOES put their estimate of value on the order !! If Danny is going to accuse appraisers of hitting numbers than he should let us know what the number hit percentages are with the valuations the agencies do for waivers.

 

[DWiley]

I have never, ever had a "magic number communicated or hinted to me in a refi since the change post HVCC . I find it hard to believe any loan officer would risk communicating it now nor any legit appraiser ask if of an owner. 80% ltv idk, but prices have risen so people doing refinances now have more equity.

So I am guessing you missed the order that floated around social media last week - the one that communicated the needed value right on the appraisal request.