MV opinion vs a price estimate

[The Bob]

Why are you so confused about this?

Price may or may not equal MV, but we use price to discover MV.
What other proxy, besides price, would you use to discover MV?

 

[J Grant]

Why are you so confused about this?

Price may or may not equal MV, but we use price to discover MV.
What other proxy, besides price, would you use to discover MV?

I am not confused at all !! I am posting this because a number of appraisers in past threads make statements like :
"We give price opinions. /A sale contract price is market value. A market value opinion and a price is the same thing."

Wrt to what you wrote: Price may or may not equal MV, True. And price is vetted from the MV definition terms of sale to "discover : MV. But there are numerous other proxies in the appraisal to develop our MV opinion (we need to say MV opinion rather than just MV ) Some of the proxies are the qualities or defects of the subject itself, how does the subject compares to other properties sold /comps, what are the market conditions affecting price such as supply/demand, what does it cost to replace a subject, what income can it generate etc.

 

[JeffSH]

"We give price opinions. /A sale contract price is market value. A market value opinion and a price is the same thing."

This is a strawman. Another logical fallacy. Nobody here is making these points.

This whole stupid argument boils down to whether nor not you agree with the statement:

"The most probable price of a commodity is a price"

How on earth could you disagree with that? Can you please stop!!!!

 

[JeffSH]

And before you go down this road, nobody is saying they are the exact same thing! A price can be market value. But not all prices are market value. This is appraisal 101. The stuff you learn in principles and procedures!

 

[J Grant]

This is a strawman. Another logical fallacy. Nobody here is making these points.

This whole stupid argument boils down to whether nor not you agree with the statement:

"The most probable price of a commodity is a price"

How on earth could you disagree with that? Can you please stop!!!!

Okay, most probable price of a commodity is the price - But what price would be "the price"- an average of prices? The last price a commodity sold for ?
Moving on from there, even if we agree which price is the most probable price of a commodity -
The appraisal purpose statess to derive an opinion of Market Value. The appraisal purpose does not say: Purpose: an opinion of the most probable price.

The definition of market value is the most probable price -of a presumed transaction at the MV as defined terms.
Hower, an opinion of market value is not the same thing as the definition of market value.

 

[JeffSH]

Okay, most probable price of a commodity is the price

Topic is over. Everyone can go home. No reason to read any further inane ramblings.

 

[J Grant]

And before you go down this road, nobody is saying they are the exact same thing! A price can be market value. But not all prices are market value. This is appraisal 101. The stuff you learn in principles and procedures!

Yes, it is appraisal 101 as a fundamental that some prices can be what we believe are "market value", and others are not. However, "market value" as a generic term is problematical for appraisers.

In an appraisal, there is a definition of market value, and there is an opinion of market value.. The definition is the terms and conditions of the presumed transaction producing the most probable price.
The opinion of market value is the purpose of the appraisal, and reflects the appraisal of the property as of X date at the sale terms ( as defined ) is $___________

 

[J Grant]

Topic is over. Everyone can go home. No reason to read any further inane ramblings.

"The most probable price of a commodity is a price" This was your "inane rambling" -I agree with it on face value.

However, what is the purpose of an appraisal, an opinion of the most probable price, or an opinion of market value ?

 

[JeffSH]

Yes, it is appraisal 101 as a fundamental that some prices can be what we believe are "market value", and others are not. However, "market value" as a generic term is problematical for appraisers.

In an appraisal, there is a definition of market value, and there is an opinion of market value.. The definition is the terms and conditions of the presumed transaction producing the most probable price.
The opinion of market value is the purpose of the appraisal, and reflects the appraisal of the property as of X date at the sale terms ( as defined ) is $___________

You're the person using generic terms like "real world price"

Market value is an opinion of the most probable price. An opinion of market value is an opinion of price. QED

 

[J Grant]

You're the person using generic terms like "real world price"

Market value is an opinion of the most probable price. An opinion of market value is an opinion of price. QED

Show me/paste ut from USPAP definition or in AI definition written that way you did above, or in an appraisal text instruction

the Definition of market value is an opinion of the most probable price (or market value used as a generic term) is the most probable price.

But an OPINION of Market value Is NOT an opinion of price. It remains, an opinion of value.