Inversion

[DWiley]

As far as your argument that Cubi Casa is better than what "we" have been using for the past 30 years - is EXACTLY what the Cubi Casa rep told me.

I made no such argument. I simply noted that in evaluating the efficacy of technology based solutions one should not examine those solutions in a vacuum - but also compare them to the legacy solution. It was an observation about testing - not a comment (or argument) about testing results.

 

[DWiley]

I never thought to ask: Does Freddie Mac yet require adherence to ANSI Z765-2021?

No. Freddie Mac does not currently require following the ANSI standard.

 

[RCA]

I made no such argument. I simply noted that in evaluating the efficacy of technology based solutions one should not examine those solutions in a vacuum - but also compare them to the legacy solution. It was an observation about testing - not a comment (or argument) about testing results.

You posted: "I do not see a lot of people .... asking how scans compare to what we have used for the last 30+ years." This implies that you consider this relevant. But why would this be relevant to the issue of whether Cubi Casa is ANSI compliant? You won't answer the question - just like Cubi Casa. You "should" know the answer. You must know it is not compliant.

You haven't answered whether Freddie Mac now requires compliance to ANSI Z765. I assume it does not at this point. If Freddie Mac and FNMA cannot agree on the same standards, that is kind of an issue for appraisers. Yet, I am pretty sure that lenders are going to always require FNMA compliance.

So a broader issue is when Freddie Mac get's on this forum and make statements, perhaps implicitly, that certain things are acceptable in their reviews, without people knowing the organization they represent, - it can be misleading.

I think you need to be careful about who you represent and the context of your statements. You are in a boxed corner (in the sense that appraisals that get to your desk most likely have to pass through a more demanding FNMA filter) and your statements most likely don't apply to the vast majority of reviewers and lenders. You really need to make that clear. Otherwise, I think your statements are misleading, especailly to those who don't have a clue what is going on. Many on this forum, based on other posts, do know who you represent, - but not much else.

 

[Carnivore]

He Can't. Plus these Apps I would say are a legitimate way to measure. Lidar technology has come a long way.

Another Point is if all appraisers are using Lidar , then this is consistency across the profession.

In your Cert you say you measured. You don't say you measured with a 100' Tape, Red/Green Laser, Wheel etc

Additionally, I use a sketch found in a listing, but I don't check all dimensions on the sketch but do check Key Dimensions.

Apparently CUBICASA has improved and they are claiming compliance with ANSI

https://www.cubi.casa/digital-GLA/

 

[TerryRohrer]

He Can't. Plus these Apps I would say are a legitimate way to measure. Lidar technology has come a long way.

Another Point is if all appraisers are using Lidar , then this is consistency across the profession.

In your Cert you say you measured. You don't say you measured with a 100' Tape, Red/Green Laser, Wheel etc

Additionally, I use a sketch found in a listing, but I don't check all dimensions on the sketch but do check Key Dimensions.

Apparently CUBICASA has improved and they are claiming compliance with ANSI

https://www.cubi.casa/digital-GLA/

So, given that we have numerous reports that the square footage based on these apps is inaccurate, how do you proceed and sign this certification:

"3. The appraiser has relied on data provided by third-parties in this appraisal report. Such data may include, but is not limited to, flood maps, multiple listing real estate services, tax assessment records, public land records, satellite imagery, virtual street views, property data services, surveys, engineering reports, and property data aggregations. After examination of the data and data sources, the appraiser has used only the data he or she considers reliable. The appraiser assumes there are no material omissions and makes no guarantees, express or implied, regarding the accuracy of this data."

 

[RCA]

He Can't. Plus these Apps I would say are a legitimate way to measure. Lidar technology has come a long way.

Another Point is if all appraisers are using Lidar , then this is consistency across the profession.

In your Cert you say you measured. You don't say you measured with a 100' Tape, Red/Green Laser, Wheel etc

Additionally, I use a sketch found in a listing, but I don't check all dimensions on the sketch but do check Key Dimensions.

Apparently CUBICASA has improved and they are claiming compliance with ANSI

https://www.cubi.casa/digital-GLA/

Well you are wrong on a couple of points. Cubi Casa does not claim to be compliant to ANSI. That would be a lie. They do say they are "aligned" with ANSI. But that is totally meaningless. If you talk to one of their reps and ask them very directly if they are ANSI compliant - you will not get an answer.

Whether these apps such as Cubi Casa can be considered a legitimate way to measure is irrelevant. They do work, probably, under good conditions: Adequate lighting, a vacant home, no reflective surfaces like mirrors - and for interior measurements only. So, they can be used to measure certain things.

For appraisers who cannot do interior floor plans - because it requires a visual IQ beyond their capability, Cubi Casa could be used to create the floor plan - but they would need to correct the exterior dimensions. And they will have to pay for each scan. So, it is still usable. But, it costs and it is not accurate for critical measurements - the exterior measurements.

Whether Cubi Casa has improved is irrelevant to the question of whether they currently have sufficient accuracy.

I do expect that in about 2 years time, there will be LIDAR measurement systems that work for house measurements. But currently there are none that are ANSI compliant, as far as I know.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

I give more credibility to the report I have on hard.

Actually precision is not more credible when mixed measures are used and you are measuring differently in the upper level than the lower level because you cannot physically measure the exterior of a half story unless you are a lot more agile than I. Further, if you ask me, ANSI is suggesting that all dormers are NOT GLA...they are too narrow. On and on. The precision of assessors drawings vs appraiser's measurements are generally inconsequential. Or as someone else noted, we are fixated on measuring to the tenth, then use a rounded SF adjustment figure to adjust a difference of less than 50 SF in the adjustment grid... Go figure. Inaccurate but precise.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

there will be LIDAR measurements systems

There are 2 common wavelengths of LIDAR - will they work differently? Do we get the SLAR problem (or benefit) of "seeing" deep into walls. beneath canopy, through the trees and dross of every day life. Just asking.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

You haven't answered whether Freddie Mac now requires compliance to ANSI Z765.

I believe he just did

 

[DWiley]

So, given that we have numerous reports that the square footage based on these apps is inaccurate, how do you proceed and sign this certification:

"3. The appraiser has relied on data provided by third-parties in this appraisal report. Such data may include, but is not limited to, flood maps, multiple listing real estate services, tax assessment records, public land records, satellite imagery, virtual street views, property data services, surveys, engineering reports, and property data aggregations. After examination of the data and data sources, the appraiser has used only the data he or she considers reliable. The appraiser assumes there are no material omissions and makes no guarantees, express or implied, regarding the accuracy of this data."

As with any data source used, it is up to the individual appraiser to make the decision as to what he or she considers reliable.

Heck, I am old enough to remember back when forms software was first introduced and some "old timers" would not convert because they didn't trust forms software to do the math correctly. I fought that battle within my own office