ANSI beef

[ZZGAMAZZ]

Back in the day, they came out with FHA guides for inspections and appraisers in my class panicked. I remember thinking, “you mean you don’t do that now? Geez!” I remember thinking the same thing in March before ANSI became the law of the Fannie Mae land. “Hell, I have been doing that since day 1!”

I am now doing my CE courses and one of them is ANSI. I have found that I have just been “pretty good” at following it to the letter. A couple of examples are:

1. “minimum height to measure second floor of sloping ceiling is 5’ with minimum of 7’ of ceiling height being at least 50% of floor. “

ok, fine. Good to know but I know a lot of older houses in my market have like 6 feet. Buyers still ok with it.

2. “Outside dimensions are measured to nearest tenth of a foot.”
Ok, most oldest houses are not entirely square, always rounded to nearest foot.

3. “For attached condos, use inside dimensions and find out thickness of common walls and divide by 2.”
Ok, or use condo docs, like buyers.

You may have seen my problem. We appraisers are trying to estimate the market value based on buyer’s motivations. Buyers don’t adhere to these rules. They adhere to functional opinions. ANSI is designed to be standard. Buyers are not. If we arrive at a value that is not in line with buyers, we are not doing our job!

I've been wondering why the builder's dimensions of some SFR's are to the half-foot, while others are to the full-foot. What are a builder's considerations when it coms to dimensions, etc. (other than the premise that bigger costs more, I presume).

 

[Fernando]

ansi is the anti market standard. nobody uses it, not realtors, brokers, homeowners, sellers, buyers, auditors. it seems fannie wants to put appraisers in a awkward position to be misleading

No one else uses ANSI but appraisers. Why are we going against the market?
Aren't we suppose to do analysis of the market and not to our standards? USPAP better put their foot down and say enough is enough.

 

[djd09]

they are using appraisers as lab rats, manipulating the data behind the scenes, to further controls, nothing new

 

[Fernando]

they are using appraisers as lab rats, manipulating the data behind the scenes, to further controls, nothing new

You're right.
Fannie is using us for their data collection in using ANSI. Fannie doesn't care that it causes confusions and difficulties in using ANSI for our appraisals.
In the long run, they will have most of the homes in ANSI measurements and Fannie can advanced its AI modeling system to one day eliminate appraisers.

 

[Dublin ohio]

I've been wondering why the builder's dimensions of some SFR's are to the half-foot, while others are to the full-foot. What are a builder's considerations when it coms to dimensions, etc. (other than the premise that bigger costs more, I presume).

The actual plans I see have dimensions to the inch. Some to the fraction of an inch.

 

[shrubberyvaluation]

We can compensate for market reaction of buyers with making a line item adjustment.

A buyer may pay X $ for a house because the 6 foot tall dorm area under ceiling is used for a kids bedroom. In ANSI, we do not include it in main dwelling living area, but we can put it on the grid as aline item of additional area, and assign the value to it as a line item adjustment.

But what if the line adjustment is to take into account the difference between fannie mae standards and what market participants see and not market reaction.

 

[jay trotta]

The actual plans I see have dimensions to the inch. Some to the fraction of an inch.

Over all the years, never have seen "inch" anywhere, always to the nearest foot. Anyway, buyers (most) do not have a concept or care about SF, they have an emotional feeling, like the look and layout (the flow) of the dwelling, which is the lady of the houses thought process. I don't disagree with your area or what you have seen, it just shows the diversity across the country.
It's always nice to have uniformity, where in some instances it doesn't exist, but within the space between earlobes.

 

[J Grant]

Most buyers have a rough idea of square feet and how much they need/want ( or can afford )
They say something like " We have two kids, we need at least 1500 sf and 3 bedrooms" . They might in fact end up buying a home of 1400 sf if they like other things about it. But it is doubtful that buyer would buy a house of 1200 sf - it feels "small" and homes of that sf with 3 bedrooms tends to have cramped bedrooms and baths.

RE agents are notorious for over stating sf in their listings and I do not see that changing. (though it might at some point ). Their brokers tell them not to measure so they will not be liable for sf errors. They tend to add in garages, porches, dormer attics, and a shed into the total SF. In that sense they might fool a buyer into thinking they purchased more sf than they did wrt living area.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

What are a builder's considerations when it coms to dimensions,

so they have wiggle room if they screw up

As for ANSI Beef - I wondered if that was like Angus beef - coffee table talk

 

[djd09]

you can have a house completely underground and count as sq ft , but a house with one inch below and not count. ansi is a joke