Waivers, huh?

[J Grant]

I don't know how much more entitlement you could possibly load into your role as a self-employed fee appraiser.

Entitlement - ?? LENDERS got the entitlement of being bailed out to the tune of billions by the govt; appraisers never did. Shame on you

What you are saying is you think the lenders should set the value, as they do in the waiver ( along as it falls in the AVM range) and that you think it si fine, even though the lenders are the same ones with a vested interest that the value hit the target regardless if it hurts markets or puts an owner under water, and as a group have a history of fraud and getting bailed out etc.

Okay....

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

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They might as well have said "granted contingent upon the results of their AVM review". Similar to when they accept an appraisal contingent upon the results of their AVM review.

why the words "self-valuation" then? Oh, my place is worth $1.5 million...That's what the neighbor got for his place...? Not appraised either. Wasn't that the issue when all the banks went under in the S & L Crisis? It was not worth what they had lent.

 

[J Grant]

G Hatch-

Not counting your soapbox about how you think appraisers are entitled and hypocrites and deserve to be thrown out of work ERC, why do you think it is a good idea to dismantle a system that worked very well for decades ( relying on appraisals ) with a historically low default rate ( except for the boom 2006-2008 featuring predatory lending ) and instead put the valuations into the same hands of vested parties who profit only if the target number value is made?

It has never been done before, not on the scale that is underway now -

An alternate valuation might be able to replace an appraisal in some cases, but it does ot replace the ROLE of the appraiser - the one party in teh transaction with no vested interest in the outcome that might act as a brake on the deal it is needed - this is like a car now with the brakes removed since they were so pesky and just slowed the vehicle down-

Appraisers will survive getting town out of work one way or another, see how well the markets do, and see what future bailouts might be needed since wavers have trained a larger share. I think the prices went wild, and it is hard to estimate how many over-leveraged borrowers are underwater in refinances because of it.

 

[George Hatch]

According to their explanation of it there is apparently no such thing as "waiver-only" on the GSEs part. At a minimum, their decision making process will at least include the use of their AVM (aka "data-based analyses") with some applications being rejected. And additionally, some waivers also include an onsite PDC.

So "overleveraged due to waivers" can't be expected to amount to "never" on the zero defect basis but it's illogical and emo to assume "overleveraged at 70% or 80% LTVs are going to be a regular or common occurrence. That is, unless you actually think it's common for 80% LTVs to be overleveraged.

That leaves us with the "appraisers being driven out of work" because there will still be far too many heads competing for the dwindling number of appraisal assignments which remain. It's definitely a problem for appraisers, but it's not a moral problem for the politicians or the lenders in any way. When appraisers opted to go with digital imagery and PDFs a lot of 1hr photo developers and 35mm film retailers lost a lot of business (most got driven out due to economic obsolescence), but that didn't make it immoral for appraisers to exercise their alternatives.

The GSEs don't originate loans. They buy loans that have already been originated, contingent on those loans fitting into their programs. So their use of "review by AVM" for appraisals and waivers and whatever else they're using AVMs for doesn't amount to a self-perpetuating loop for sale prices in the market. The most you could say is that the GSEs have bought overvalued mortgages. But as I say, the you can' say that the 0-80% LTVs are part of the "overvalued mortgages".

 

[George Hatch]

As for the dwindling book of work, appraisers have a right to be sad about their clients taking the most profitable part of their business elsewhere. But they can't say those lenders are stealing that work from the appraisers because it never belonged to the appraisers to begin with.

IRL the market for appraisal services in 2030 will come to be regardless of what the fee appraisers want. Not all of the incumbent appraisers are going to make it until then.

 

[J Grant]

According to their explanation of it there is apparently no such thing as "waiver-only" on the GSEs part. At a minimum, their decision making process will at least include the use of their AVM (aka "data-based analyses") with some applications being rejected. And additionally, some waivers also include an onsite PDC.

So "overleveraged due to waivers" can't be expected to amount to "never" on the zero defect basis but it's illogical and emo to assume "overleveraged at 70% or 80% LTVs are going to be a regular or common occurrence. That is, unless you actually think it's common for 80% LTVs to be overleveraged.

That leaves us with the "appraisers being driven out of work" because there will still be far too many heads competing for the dwindling number of appraisal assignments which remain. It's definitely a problem for appraisers, but it's not a moral problem for the politicians or the lenders in any way. When appraisers opted to go with digital imagery and PDFs a lot of 1hr photo developers and 35mm film retailers lost a lot of business (most got driven out due to economic obsolescence), but that didn't make it immoral for appraisers to exercise their alternatives.

The GSEs don't originate loans. They buy loans that have already been originated, contingent on those loans fitting into their programs. So their use of "review by AVM" for appraisals and waivers and whatever else they're using AVMs for doesn't amount to a self-perpetuating loop for sale prices in the market. The most you could say is that the GSEs have bought overvalued mortgages. But as I say, the you can' say that the 0-80% LTVs are part of the "overvalued mortgages".

We KNOW it includes an AVM !! Do we have to write it out every single time just so you will not remind us? In fact, I take the time to include it just for you .

The rest is word salad, we know the GSE's dont' orginate loans. The taxpayers and investors, and markets are stuck with any compounded overvaluations from Waivers, and it has accomplished nothing other than sending money that used to go to appraisers to the AMC's that perform the waiver PDC collection for the waivers that need a PDC.

 

[J Grant]

As for the dwindling book of work, appraisers have a right to be sad about their clients taking the most profitable part of their business elsewhere. But they can't say those lenders are stealing that work from the appraisers because it never belonged to the appraisers to begin with.

IRL the market for appraisal services in 2030 will come to be regardless of what the fee appraisers want. Not all of the incumbent appraisers are going to make it until then.

Nobody said they are stealing work - I can not recall seeing any posts using that language except your own.

I said, and it is correct; they (Fannie and Freddie ) chose to use and accept waivers knowing it would put a certain amount of appraisers out of work, while at the same time, it enriched their chosen list of AMCs that do the PDC collection the saver loans needing an inspection. Right now Fannie and Freddie perform the AVM, my prediction is in the future that work will go to the AMC's too,

Regardless of risk ( if it is so low risk, why aren't lenders responsible for the value? lol ), as long as the value fits in the AVM range, the waiver is a predetermined value. The lender estimates the value needed to make the deal work, or the sC price is the value. Ironically, that very thing that the big bad mortgage brokers pressured is now allowed via bypassing regulated appraisals—pretty slick!

wrt S/D it is appropriate that if mortgage lending work is permanently reduced the supply of appraisers who do that work will be reduced. Which appraisers will be left standing will be the interesting part.

 

[George Hatch]

Nobody said they are stealing work - I can not recall seeing any posts using that language except your own.

I said, and it is correct; they (Fannie and Freddie ) chose to use and accept waivers knowing it would put a certain amount of appraisers out of work, while at the same time, it enriched their chosen list of AMCs that do the PDC collection the saver loans needing an inspection. Right now Fannie and Freddie perform the AVM, my prediction is in the future that work will go to the AMC's too,

Regardless of risk ( if it is so low risk, why aren't lenders responsible for the value? lol ), as long as the value fits in the AVM range, the waiver is a predetermined value. The lender estimates the value needed to make the deal work, or the sC price is the value. Ironically, that very thing that the big bad mortgage brokers pressured is now allowed via bypassing regulated appraisals—pretty slick!

wrt S/D it is appropriate that if mortgage lending work is permanently reduced the supply of appraisers who do that work will be reduced. Which appraisers will be left standing will be the interesting part.

Stop the gaslighting. You apparently think the appraisers somehow deserve to be protected from the vagaries of the valuation market and the choices the users are making in their own best interests.

We deserve nothing beyond what we earn. And even that calculation is based on what we've been doing for them in the current and recent past.

"What have you done for us lately?"​

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And you're still not doing yourself any favors when misusing terms in reference to requirements that don't apply to these users. A lender is a principal in a loan transaction and is expected to advocate for and act in their own interests. They are not an objective outside party for which there is an expectation or obligation to act impartially or with disregard for a "predetermined value conclusion." They are not acting as an appraiser, even when using an appraisal, much less an AVM or BPO or whatnot. Objectivity requirements don't apply.

 

[George Hatch]

Lemme ask you something: Where would you say you are in this process?

 

[gregb]

Lemme ask you something: Where would you say you are in this process?

View attachment 85759

Resistance of AMC domination.