Is the term 'price point' value a dangerous term.

[J Grant]

She should sit in on some appeal pre-trial meeting value negotiations...her head would explode.

?? All I am doing here is quoting USPAP and recommending to following the standards in appraisals.

 

[TerryRohrer]

Geez.... even though I posted photos of myself here on the Forum and Little Miss Can't be Wrong commented on them, she mis-genders me.... isn't that a penalty for the lunatic left or something?


You’re not either.... they don't frame your appraisals and put them up on a wall....


NO ONE is arguing that point values don't exist! EVERYONE here that provides Appraisal Services puts them into their reports. The point value however, is subjective and an opinion as it's derived from the adjusted range and tweaked a tad more via weighting. 5 appraisers for the same property will have different pinpoints..... but a similar range. Who here is "good enough" to pinpoint "the right value" when the spread of the range is 3% to 4% You? How about a complex assignment where the spread is more like 10%?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $674k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Per USPAP regarding the word "point".

1) the type of assignment in each request described in the Background section of this Advisory Opinion is an appraisal. If an appraiser is asked whether a specific property has a value (a point, a range, or a relationship to some benchmark), that Prequest is for an opinion of value (an appraisal). Appraisers, obligated to comply with USPAP, must develop a real property appraisal in accordance with STANDARD 1. Reporting that value opinion must be accomplished in accordance with STANDARD 2.

Here's the concept of "a point" in reviews...

Illustrations of the Language in an Appraisal Review Report WITH an Opinion of Value The following are examples of language that signify a value opinion (i.e., either by concurrence or by indication of a numeric point, a range, or a relationship to a numeric benchmark). These examples DO constitute evidence of a value opinion (i.e., appraisal) by the reviewer, thereby making the appraisal review one that includes an appraisal.

• “I concur (or do not concur) with the value.”
• “I agree (or disagree) with the value.”
• “In my opinion, the value is (the same).”
• “In my opinion, the value is incorrect and should be $zzz.”
• “In my opinion, the value is too high (or too low).”

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $672k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $670k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $668k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $666k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $664k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $662k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $660k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $658k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Or do you fudge the number and then go through all the certifications and cross out those that are no longer truthful? Document the new adjustment that takes the range above the contract? Just not mention any of it? Is there a line anywhere?

 

[Surf Cat]

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $672k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $670k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $668k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $666k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $664k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $662k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $674k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $674k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Or do you fudge the number and then go through all the certifications and cross out those that are no longer truthful? Document the new adjustment that takes the range above the contract? Just not mention any of it? Is there a line anywhere?

I think your keyboard's broken....

 

[J Grant]

W

Geez.... even though I posted photos of myself here on the Forum and Little Miss Can't be Wrong commented on them, she mis-genders me.... isn't that a penalty for the lunatic left or something?


You’re not either.... they don't frame your appraisals and put them up on a wall....


NO ONE is arguing that point values don't exist! EVERYONE here that provides Appraisal Services puts them into their reports. The point value however, is subjective and an opinion as it's derived from the adjusted range and tweaked a tad more via weighting. 5 appraisers for the same property will have different pinpoints..... but a similar range. Who here is "good enough" to pinpoint "the right value" when the spread of the range is 3% to 4% You? How about a complex assignment where the spread is more like 10%?

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. Contract is for $680k however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $674k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?

Per USPAP regarding the word "point".

1) the type of assignment in each request described in the Background section of this Advisory Opinion is an appraisal. If an appraiser is asked whether a specific property has a value (a point, a range, or a relationship to some benchmark), that Prequest is for an opinion of value (an appraisal). Appraisers, obligated to comply with USPAP, must develop a real property appraisal in accordance with STANDARD 1. Reporting that value opinion must be accomplished in accordance with STANDARD 2.

Here's the concept of "a point" in reviews...

Illustrations of the Language in an Appraisal Review Report WITH an Opinion of Value The following are examples of language that signify a value opinion (i.e., either by concurrence or by indication of a numeric point, a range, or a relationship to a numeric benchmark). These examples DO constitute evidence of a value opinion (i.e., appraisal) by the reviewer, thereby making the appraisal review one that includes an appraisal.

• “I concur (or do not concur) with the value.”
• “I agree (or disagree) with the value.”
• “In my opinion, the value is (the same).”
• “In my opinion, the value is incorrect and should be $zzz.”
• “In my opinion, the value is too high (or too low).”

I do not keep up with who posts what photo - correct me on your gender if I was wrong in my assumption - it's easy to do with screen names as the Avatar.

Wrt Point Value, you are ahead of Alsie, who says it does not exist lol.
The point value, as you note, when opined by an appraiser, is an opinion. It is not so much subjective as it is limited by what the appraisal develops and if an appraiser is competent and ethical, the value opinion stands up to scrutiny and challenge ( and often is close to how the market behaves as well)

Let me ask you something.... you have a purchase assignment. The contract is for $680k; however, your highest adjusted sale comes out to $674k. BTW.... this is your number one client. What do you do?I

Not knowing the particulars, of course, I would probably opine for 674k, if that is the highest supported credible value and my highest adjusted comp price. My number one client would be okay with it since in the appraisal the fact that the OMV was under the SC price would be explained.

What would you do?
We know that when the OMV is below a purchase price, a borrower can make up the difference, or the seller can lower their price or the agent can drop their commission. If none of them want to do that and their deal dies, it was not our fault. The appraiser is not hired to make their deals work - they need to make their deals work.

That said, sales contracts and their prices are meaningful, and we should not deliberately try to underappraise (or ooverappraise

In your example, if my opinion of MV was 679k, I might round it to 680 k but 674k is not a rounding issue, it is a value gap because the highest sale only adjusts to it, and then what about tall the other lower adjusted sales, They still count as indicators.

 

[glenn walker]

I think your keyboard's broken....

Surf Cat I thought you were a male does J.G. know something we don't ?

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

What do you do?

9 of 10 appraisers might go back and "adjust" their adjustments so that it gets bracketed - especially if the original comp price is above the "target". Face it. If the margin of error is 1% - like in the example above - are we that good? (just to trigger UNoWho) No we are not. The data dictates the margin of error not the appraiser. We should not be "killing deals" over minor differences in price vs a calculated MV estimate.

 

[J Grant]

Geez the value versus price issue has sent her off the rails again.

Pleas stop it, Glenn. you are just piling on snark and adding nothing to the discussion. Keep it up and I will put you back on ignore - I realize it was a mistake to take you off it!

I happen to be quoting USPAP directly and my comments are directed at anyone here who wants to learn - there are many here who read and do not post. I 've field-reviewed hundreds of reprtos, and my clients trust me with high-end and unique properties, so I must be doing something right.

 

[TerryRohrer]

I think your keyboard's broken....

Nope, just a bit of sensitivity analysis.

 

[Surf Cat]

?? All I am doing here is quoting USPAP and recommending to following the standards in appraisals.

"It's not what you're saying, it's how you're saying it" emphasizes the importance of the delivery of a message over the content itself. The tone, and inflection used when conveying a message can significantly influence how the message is received and understood by others.

Effective communication also involves being aware of the audience's perception and adjusting the delivery accordingly to build trust and establish relationships.

In other words....the way a message is conveyed is crucial for its effectiveness and impact.

Every everyone knows your intelligent and a good appraiser J......sometimes you're just frigging tone deaf.

 

[J Grant]

9 of 10 appraisers might go back and "adjust" their adjustments so that it gets bracketed - especially if the original comp price is above the "target". Face it. If the margin of error is 1% - like in the example above - are we that good? (just to trigger UNoWho) No we are not. The data dictates the margin of error not the appraiser. We should not be "killing deals" over minor differences in price vs a calculated MV estimate.

So you would massage the adjustments just to hit a SC price because you are not good enough to stand by your opinion at the better-supported value -and you don't want to kill a deal over a minor difference in price vs value. Then you should not mislead your client and state your reasoning !!


But I bet you didn't sate that right? And neither do the others who think that way -they pretend they did not tweak the adjustment to make the number hit. This is what makes people distrust apparisrs and why we are losing market share. We sell our integrity, not just the analysis. If we start tweaking our analysis to hit this or that agenda, then what are we selling?