Who is the owner?

[NJ Valuator]

Completed an appraisal for a reverse mortgage(not FHA).

The owners of public record are "John Doe" and "Mary Snow". The borrowers on the LOE and the occupants of the house are the parents of "John Doe" and "Mary Snow".
In the report I stated that "The Owners of Public Record are not the borrowers & the Assignment Type is not a Purchase."

Since the owners of public record are not the occupants, I checked the box that it was tenant occupied(for lack of any other pertinent choices).

The Deed refers to the parents as the Grantor and the children, "John Doe" and "Mary Snow" as the Grantees and calls them, Trustees of the G.R.S.R. Irrevocable Trust.

The client came back with:

1. "Please correct the report to owner occupied and remove the X from the tenant box. The Borrowers do occupy the subject, and they are the owners, Property is vested in their trust & even though they are not the trustees of the trust they are still the owners and owner box should be marked."

2. "Please revisit the legal description and remove the verbiage stating, "The Owners of Public Record are not the borrowers & the Assignment Type is not a Purchase" as well as the verbiage "Owners are the borrower's but since they are not the Owners of PR, Tenant is checked".

My duty is simply to report the Owners of Public Record and as per tax records the children "John Doe" and "Mary Snow" are those individuals. It would be misleading to report the owners of public record as anyone other than the children regardless of who is vested in whatever. And if the parents who are not the owners occupy the dwelling would they not be the tenant?

Please advise on a response to the client.

Thanks!

 

[BRCJR]

Got a deed?

 

[Artemis Fowl]

Got a deed?

Yeah what he said.

Speaking as a guy who actually enters what is commonly referred to as Public Record...accurately referred to as Assessment or Tax Records, I get my information for entry FROM THE DEED. My PRD database is REFERENCE ONLY. Tax and Assessment records can be and sometimes are wrong. VIEW THE DEED.

I often see threads about condo information. Guess what? Almost every single question you need answers to from those stupid expensive questionnaires is in the condo's master deed...which nobody seems to view for some reason. It defines the entire project.

 

[swandel1]

We have lots of trusts here is AZ. I always use the name of the trust as the owner of record, never the trustees. Here, the trust is the same, regardless of who the trustees are. Trustees can change within the trust, but the trust stays the same. Lets say we have the Smith Trust with Joe and Jane Smith as the trustees. Joe passes away, so he is no longer a trustee - but the Smith Trust lives on. Then Jane passes away, there would be a successor trustee - but the new successor trustee is trustee of the Smith Trust. Again - the trust lives on until it is revoked, distributed, etc.

 

[Elliott]

The lender only wants you to check the 'owner' box. By all means include a paragraph about the trust. Appraiser's aren't title companies.

 

[NJ Valuator]

Got a deed?

yes, I stated what was on the deed in my post.

 

[NJ Valuator]

Yeah what he said.

Speaking as a guy who actually enters what is commonly referred to as Public Record...accurately referred to as Assessment or Tax Records, I get my information for entry FROM THE DEED. My PRD database is REFERENCE ONLY. Tax and Assessment records can be and sometimes are wrong. VIEW THE DEED.

I often see threads about condo information. Guess what? Almost every single question you need answers to from those stupid expensive questionnaires is in the condo's master deed...which nobody seems to view for some reason. It defines the entire project.

I did view the deed. I mentioned that in my post.

 

[Artemis Fowl]

Sorry I saw that after I posted...and took the opportunity to soapbox.

Your client is likely correct. The words Grantee and Beneficiary can mean the same thing in a trust context. Not really but it is sometimes used that way. The Trustee is supposed to be the person responsible for executing the trust...usually with a backup trustee also named. Typically I enter the Trust as owner in PRD. The Grantor (or Settlor) can be said to own the trust. That said...state law varies and I have seen some really strange convolutions of these terms.

 

[NJ Valuator]

Yeah what he said.

Speaking as a guy who actually enters what is commonly referred to as Public Record...accurately referred to as Assessment or Tax Records, I get my information for entry FROM THE DEED. My PRD database is REFERENCE ONLY. Tax and Assessment records can be and sometimes are wrong. VIEW THE DEED.

I often see threads about condo information. Guess what? Almost every single question you need answers to from those stupid expensive questionnaires is in the condo's master deed...which nobody seems to view for some reason. It defines the entire project.

yes, the master deed is chock full of info.

 

[sputnam]

Completed an appraisal for a reverse mortgage(not FHA).

The owners of public record are "John Doe" and "Mary Snow". The borrowers on the LOE and the occupants of the house are the parents of "John Doe" and "Mary Snow".
In the report I stated that "The Owners of Public Record are not the borrowers & the Assignment Type is not a Purchase."

Since the owners of public record are not the occupants, I checked the box that it was tenant occupied(for lack of any other pertinent choices).

The Deed refers to the parents as the Grantor and the children, "John Doe" and "Mary Snow" as the Grantees and calls them, Trustees of the G.R.S.R. Irrevocable Trust.

The client came back with:

1. "Please correct the report to owner occupied and remove the X from the tenant box. The Borrowers do occupy the subject, and they are the owners, Property is vested in their trust & even though they are not the trustees of the trust they are still the owners and owner box should be marked."

2. "Please revisit the legal description and remove the verbiage stating, "The Owners of Public Record are not the borrowers & the Assignment Type is not a Purchase" as well as the verbiage "Owners are the borrower's but since they are not the Owners of PR, Tenant is checked".

My duty is simply to report the Owners of Public Record and as per tax records the children "John Doe" and "Mary Snow" are those individuals. It would be misleading to report the owners of public record as anyone other than the children regardless of who is vested in whatever. And if the parents who are not the owners occupy the dwelling would they not be the tenant?

Please advise on a response to the client.

Thanks!

Include a copy of the deed in the Appraisal Report. Without seeing the deed I can't make a judgement but, it sounds like the property is either owned by the children with the occupants holding a life estate (or renting from the children) or there is a trust in place. If so, the client's request is incorrect. As the appraiser, the Borrower is whoever the Client tells you it is. The Owner of Public Record is whoever public record says it is. Of course, there can be exceptions... like if the property has changed hands but public records hasn't caught up yet. If that's the case then, it's above and beyond the normal scope of work for an appraiser. You'll need to have the Client provide some documentation.

If ownership is vested in a trust, then the borrowers are not the owners. Neither are the children. The trust owns the property. Who the trustees are is a different issue.

The statement "The Owners of Public Record are not the borrowers and the Assignment Type is not a Purchase" isn't necessary. Just make sure the correct boxes are marked and the information in the various fields is accurate.