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I am not doing the 3.6 FORM deal

Airstream--
Are you in SE WI? "up north?" or west of the (51)
I spoke to a Waukesha/Brookfield agent a couple months ago, and she said they don't "use" appraisals there. Head scratcher. Really?
 
Airstream--
Are you in SE WI? "up north?" or west of the (51)
I spoke to a Waukesha/Brookfield agent a couple months ago, and she said they don't "use" appraisals there. Head scratcher. Really?

I am in Western Wisconsin right now (Eau Claire, Chippewa Falls area). I do a mixture of waterfront, rural, and urban/suburban appraisals. We moved here in 2021 from Door County (very high end area with median lake home at a million). They use appraisals where I live. BUT my son bought a house north of Milwaukee, paid 25,000 more than asking, and had an appraisal waver. I am positive they are using AVMs and a combination of PDC’s.
 
I am in Western Wisconsin right now (Eau Claire, Chippewa Falls area). I do a mixture of waterfront, rural, and urban/suburban appraisals. We moved here in 2021 from Door County (very high end area with median lake home at a million). They use appraisals where I live. BUT my son bought a house north of Milwaukee, paid 25,000 more than asking, and had an appraisal waver. I am positive they are using AVMs and a combination of PDC’s.
Wow, that's interesting. I lived in Milwaukee for 40 miserable frosty, mosquito bitten years. Had my own real estate brokerage there for over 20 years, and my average sale price was $43,000, with listings typically taking 6-12 months (if ever) to sell. It's shocking to see how prices have gone up over the past few years, with a more active market. One could likely actually make a living at it now with prices 10X what they were 30 years ago. I'm wondering if the waivers are a result of the mostly consistent housing styles and inventory. If you name a neighborhood, I already know what the style, inventory and age of the housing stock is. Door County is a different case, and I'm unfamiliar with the housing stock in Eau Claire area. Jeepers, aren't you right across the Mississippi from Twin Cities? Do you have to travel a lot to do reports in various counties? Not much fun from Dec-Mar due to snow & temps, I'll bet.
 
Why complain so much until the actual form is released and the Data Masters and Sparks of the world have also said what they have in store. Either way I'm not losing a second of sleep I will happily continue at my fee and just get busier I guess if everyone is jumping ship
 
Wow, that's interesting. I lived in Milwaukee for 40 miserable frosty, mosquito bitten years. Had my own real estate brokerage there for over 20 years, and my average sale price was $43,000, with listings typically taking 6-12 months (if ever) to sell. It's shocking to see how prices have gone up over the past few years, with a more active market. One could likely actually make a living at it now with prices 10X what they were 30 years ago. I'm wondering if the waivers are a result of the mostly consistent housing styles and inventory. If you name a neighborhood, I already know what the style, inventory and age of the housing stock is. Door County is a different case, and I'm unfamiliar with the housing stock in Eau Claire area. Jeepers, aren't you right across the Mississippi from Twin Cities? Do you have to travel a lot to do reports in various counties? Not much fun from Dec-Mar due to snow & temps, I'll bet.

I think the waivers are due to the pretty consistent nature of the neighborhoods. I have noticed that AVMs in even the Eau Claire area are pretty accurate. We have AVMs in our MLS. If you click on a listing, you can also find the AVM value range. Some are downright spot on. Others not so much. Rural, waterfront, etc are different story. And Door county a completely different kind of market. I was getting 2500 for doing some stuff in Door County; and regularly over 1500 for waterfront. So the end of appraisal work in many of these areas where AVMs are accurate is close at hand. I don’t travel to Door any longer. Did for a few years because of the high fees and I had lots of private clients. Also I hate the cold weather part of it.
 
Your comments clearly display the arrogance of many commercial appraisers I have had to "discuss" reports with. As a commercial credit manager for banks. Your comments lean on the income approach to validate your point, but last I checked the SCA is where location adjustments go. And FTR, I deal with many owner occupied buildings as well, where an income approach is completely irrelevant. The example I gave was for a school. It's HABU was and likely (because of zoning) always would be...a school. But it's stupid to assume a "residential" appraiser could possibly understand such complex concepts, huh?

Location adjustments can go in any of the 3 approaches to value. This should be basic knowledge.
 
Why complain so much until the actual form is released and the Data Masters and Sparks of the world have also said what they have in store. Either way I'm not losing a second of sleep I will happily continue at my fee and just get busier I guess if everyone is jumping ship

I haven’t lost a wink of sleep. But there is a great deal of uncertainty among appraisers with regard to how this is all going to work. 1) When will the programs be ready? 2) Will I have to change software? 3) How will the software help me or hinder my inspections and what change in the workflow will result? Do I need more hardware? Cost? 4) If this takes longer to do how will this affect my income and business? Can I charge more? 5) How will this affect reviews, stipulations, etc etc? I remember when AMCs started. I lost a ton of income and my business was grievously hurt. You might be able keep from losing sleep, but you have to plan for it. It was a business disaster, and it took me about 5 years to get my income back up.

Losing sleep is one thing. I don’t know any appraisers losing sleep. But I do know appraisers that have a lot of unanswered questions. They are typically those that still have years to work before retirement.
 
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Bringing this back to topic:
1) Talked to a staff appraiser of a large bank today (had to talk about a mixed use property). Asked about the new form, and he said there is only one small company that has a complete form. The 3 big ones (ACI, Total, Bradford) don’t have anything workable yet. And he doubts they will be ready in time for much work.
No, it is NOT that bad. I am sure Alamode will follow their published plan and meet deadlines.

He frankly expects there to be a delay. The banks are just not ready to process this stuff.
That's a different story. I don't know the situation with banks, but have done plenty of work for them. And, they are not fast movers. Lots of software, lots of dependencies all over the US and the World. Most are a nightmare of bureacracy.

He also said he expects (as I do) these software companies at some point will go broke.
MISMO standard forms have to be addressed. You have to fit your report into MISMO. That's the central role of these software companies. That is there bread and butter. MISMO will keep changing. Who feeds MISMO will change ... and it will likely involve a lot of AI, MARS Regression, Prolog - because appraisal is political. You have to explain "Why?" for something really complex (in many cases) - in understandable language.

As appraisers leave, there will be less buyers.
Well, it is not exactly about "appraisers" leaving. The functionality will always be there. It is a question of who or what will be doing the appraisals.

I predict that within the next 5-30 years, people will manage more detailed and accurate inspections, while others will manage AI, with AI handling the grunt work of valuation.

The cost of doing this entire revision has to be astronomical.
I've come across a certain number (not a lot) of really retarded appraisers who couldn't even do traditional appraisal. Most average residential appraisers have questionable futures in the field. Some of the better ones can learn and adapt. But, I don't have a good grasp on the numbers or the potential out of the current flock of residential appraisers.

And he stated the bugs are going to be on both ends of the network.
2) As to the old UAD. The change was a pain. It took at least an extra 30 minutes initially to sift through all nonsense. Thankfully, alamode had the UAD check. The only real complaint I had with the UAD is the inability to structure the report in a way that made sense because at the time I was doing lots of waterfront properties. I got so much push back from underwriters while doing waterfront when I didn’t make acreage adjustments; instead I made frontage adjustments on a different line. The other part was “living” with the ratings. I struggled for awhile deciding whether to rate properties a certain way since it wasn’t always cut and dry. And by the way appraisers still haven’t figured out the differences in quality ratings. I see properties marked Q3 and they are Q4. They see a Q3 and they mark it Q2. They have no idea. And it is clear they haven’t ever worked in an upscale area. Initially I think the ratings scenario added 15 to 30 minutes per report. Now I can whip through it pretty quickly. WHAT we are seeing now is the UAD on steroids. It will make the old UAD look like a picnic. I watched a video on Bradfords Nighthawk, and the grids are expandable to 140 spaces (did I hear that right)? Can’t imagine.

You should always determine the best approach for you to conduct the appraisal. Do your own with Excel, Word, and whatever other tools you think work best. Then transfer your work to the required forms as necessary. If you can't transfer it all, then put those parts in the Addenda. That has always been my strategy.

However, what has always been problematic is the enormous pressure to deliver the report within the promised N days. That can drive me nuts, I simply don't have the time to complete my protocols for inspection, floor plans, photography, MARS analysis, RCA completion, and then review everything for errors after umpteen modifications ... and so out it goes for better or worse, because in those cases, you never hear back. But maybe you review your own work somewhere down the road and go into shock because of the sometimes scrambled language and mispelled words that shout out at you. All you need is a little distance from your report, and you magically see all the imperfections. Haste makes waste.

The USPAP and guidelines we have now, are very imperfect. The system is full of inertia. But it will improve, very slowly.

3) So the bottom line is: I think (IMHO) implementation by the end of 2026 may well be a pipe dream.
I don't think so.
In fact the staff appraiser I talked to said he can’t imagine it working that soon; maybe 2027.
I could see a possible delay of one quarter. If Fannie Mae makes changes to UAD 3.6, different story.
Too many hiccups along the way. Second, if you can get out (close to retirement or have another occupation) think hard about doing it. All my dues come up in November, so I have to make a choice. I am about 50/50. If I can use the old form for another year…., but maybe I pull the plug sooner and just figure out something else to do with my time. Will happen at some point. Why not now? I don’t need the money. It’s just a way to keep my brain active and get out and about. Maybe (God forbid) I go and reup my real estate license. Unfortunately, when I moved to a different location I left a lot of private work on the table. Trying to rebuild the private work end of the business is more than I want to hassle with at 70.
Honestly, that is the future. You think this is bad? Just wait.

If I were you, just learn UAD 3.6. "Required usage" will likely be delayed, given all the problems appraisers are having with it. I wouldn't be too worried. Just realize, that of course it will be more work, and you need to charge more. You should be happy.
 
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AI Overview


The training to become a property data collector for PDRs (Property Data Reports) typically involves a
short, focused course that can be completed in a few hours or days, followed by an exam. For example, one provider offers a 5-hour, self-paced online course and exam.
The specific training requirements are set by the companies that employ or contract property data collectors, and must align with guidelines from government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) like Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae.

My comment - the PR spin is that the PDR collectors are "rigorously trained." Which dovetails with letting the mortgage lender decide the property value !! ( in value acceptance, after eligibility)
A non-appraiser quick trains anybody, and a mortgage lender with zero valuation training for it and a vested profit interest estimates the property value -could go wrong? (rhetorical question ) Given the vast recent expansion of ACE/PDR /value acceptance leniency for the borrower and loan LTV%. It would take several years or longer to reach a tipping point where results might show enough non-performing loans or skewed sale prices impacting RE markets. Well, shrug, if that happens, the burden is on the taxpayers. The mortgage lender get relief from reps and warranties ( no buy-back for collateral valuation issues.) VS, when they use an appraisal, the lender has to buy back a mortgage due to collateral value issues.

Net result for appraisals: less volume, with the work consisting of problem /oddball properties, riskier borrowers, and increased scrutiny, with low fees on the AMC side and even C and R fees barely keeping up with the cost of living if ordered directly. Nobody of sound mind, which normally means one expects a decent income and outlook for a profession, would train for a res license given the current conditions. The anemic numbers graduating from PAREA show that the next generation realizes it.

The accumulated damages is what is leading to the sour outlook wrt the added burden of UAD 3.6.
 
TOTAL is cheap as chips considering all the functionality they provide
A lot of people are sick of programs that do everything except wipe your butt, charge accordingly, and you do not want nor use 90% of these great "features". Do you think that Total is not data-mining every single word you write? Your entire history is on the cloud as it is. Your phone tracks you 24 7. Apple will track you even if the phone is off. And every time I open Windows 11, it wants to link to my phone. Support for 10 was supposed to end, but guess what? I got a notice a day or two ago for another "update" from them.
 
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