I am not doing the 3.6 FORM deal

[Tim Hicks (Texas)]

they should of objected to uad...they are stealing your data and using it against you

They all objected. AI-ready was doing the same thing. I will not subscribe to Quick Source over the same principle.

 

[djd09]

their forms are a virus...making appraisers sicker

 

[Alsie35]

You must not have been on the forum in 2004-2005. It was total anarchy over the 1004 UAD forms. Before that, it was the AI-ready forms. I will never forget going to a Fannie Mae REO appraisers meeting and hearing all the appraisers talking about they were not going to do that AI-ready crap and when the meeting was over they were all saying "well, it is a business decision" as they signed on the dotted line.

In 2004-2005 I was happily working at WSB, and we probably had to go to some training sessions that our Training Dept put on (it was a GREAT training department!), and then we kept on going. Frankly I don't recall the change at all other than as an update to the forms we were already using since I was trained to appraise in 2002 ... and I was not a member of the AF until 2020 when I sought some state-specific advice about our then-impending move to TX ... I was blissfully ignorant of all the Appraisal Organizations and GSE crap and the "names" of their Grand-Poobahs (I just learned how to do GSE-compliant appraisals ... could care less about the other stuff) ... if it had not been for our move I would probably never have joined ... useful topics can be searched on the AF by non-members, and I would do that every few years ...

 

[Fernando]

You must not have been on the forum in 2004-2005. It was total anarchy over the 1004 UAD forms. Before that, it was the AI-ready forms. I will never forget going to a Fannie Mae REO appraisers meeting and hearing all the appraisers talking about they were not going to do that AI-ready crap and when the meeting was over they were all saying "well, it is a business decision" as they signed on the dotted line.

I didn't recall outcry on UAD forms then I realized I wasn't on AF in 2004.
It was a small adjustment just like 1004MC which took significant time in my appraisals. Ugh.
As long as the main form stayed 2 pages, it was acceptable to me.

 

[TerryRohrer]

As long as the main form stayed 2 pages, it was acceptable to me.

Which two pages of the six in the form do you use?

 

[Fernando]

Which two pages of the six in the form do you use?

The main pages consist mainly of the 2 pages. Rest just formalities and disclaimers.
We include other additional pages for padding to let readers know we did lot of work for our fee.

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

Just got this from Clearbox. I feel like I'm being forced into a cult or something.. What does Clearbox do anyway? Read on..​

​

Appraisers speak. We listen.​

Last week, we reached out about UAD 3.6. You responded — blunt, smart, and direct. You're tired of being talked at.


So here's what we heard, and here's where we're going.

“Fees haven’t changed in 15 years.”​

Correct. The AMC era squeezed margins and stripped power away from the people doing the work.

Clearbox is flipping that model — professional standards, verified credentials, and compensation tied to the value of your data and expertise.

“Appraisers have been sold out.”​

The industry sidelined human judgment in favor of speed.

Clearbox is putting expertise back at the center with the PDQ™ credential — proof that you collected the data, you verified it, and you own the output (within our ecosystem only.) We can’t control what others do.

"UAD 3.6 will make everything harder."​

UAD 3.6 is coming — period.

Choose tools that reduce friction, not add to it. We’re building one of those tools, and you’ll be the first to shape it.

“AI has already replaced us.”​

AI replaces repetition, not judgment.

Structured data makes expertise visible — and billable.

“Everyone profits from our data except us.”​

That ends here.


With PDQ, verified data is tagged to the appraiser who collected it. When your data is used, you can earn royalties. (Again, within our ecosytem only.)

“Why now?”​

Because UAD 3.6 isn’t optional.


This is the moment to define the appraiser’s role — or others will define it for you.


Clearbox is building a future where:

• 
  Expertise matters
  
  
• 
  The professional will own the output
  
  
• 
  Data creates recurring income
  
  

If you're ready to lead instead of react, create or update your Clearbox profile. We're not just evolving with the industry, we're reshaping it.

You know, all of what Clearbox has written here may be fact. Or maybe not. How would we monetize our sketch measuring etc? Fantasy. Or monetize anything else we put in our report? And then, if someone at some point has an issue with what we noted, and monetized (how in heck would that even be possible) is there liability we need to protect ourselves from, for the 1.5 cm difference in the length of a wall from when the latest robot said? It would seem to me that monetizing means more liability, with the UN-likelihood of ever getting any money in the first place.

As far as needing to record the house's info on an electronic notepad while doing the inspection, I don't see myself doing that. I take plenty of photos & notes & don't want to be distracted by box-checking. And if the data required is so extensive and miniscule that we are now intense House Inspectors rather than value-determiners, that should require a 2nd paycheck. Home Inspectors are paid well for their time & expertise, but they don't evaluate the property for market value. 2 different hats.

Clearbox says 3.6 IS COMING for a fact. Maybe. But if doing the report is a mega-PITA, who will be brow-beaten into doing it? Count me out. Enough is enough.

 

[RCA]

You know, all of what Clearbox has written here may be fact. Or maybe not. How would we monetize our sketch measuring etc? Fantasy. Or monetize anything else we put in our report? And then, if someone at some point has an issue with what we noted, and monetized (how in heck would that even be possible) is there liability we need to protect ourselves from, for the 1.5 cm difference in the length of a wall from when the latest robot said? It would seem to me that monetizing means more liability, with the UN-likelihood of ever getting any money in the first place.

As far as needing to record the house's info on an electronic notepad while doing the inspection, I don't see myself doing that. I take plenty of photos & notes & don't want to be distracted by box-checking. And if the data required is so extensive and miniscule that we are now intense House Inspectors rather than value-determiners, that should require a 2nd paycheck. Home Inspectors are paid well for their time & expertise, but they don't evaluate the property for market value. 2 different hats.

Clearbox says 3.6 IS COMING for a fact. Maybe. But if doing the report is a mega-PITA, who will be brow-beaten into doing it? Count me out. Enough is enough.

https://clearbox.com/files/clearbox-screening-sheet.pdf

I bet they know which side you sleep on how many hours/night on average.

Get used to it.

"I mean, they are soooo screwed over! And they get such medicre pay. Why??"

Intimidation, perhaps?

And now Trump wants 50 year loans. - Meaning the banks and lenders will wind up effectively owning most of the residential real estate in the US. And most Americans will be honest to God: "Serfs".

And the Lenders and banks will be come the "Vassals" to the President (or perhaps the President becomes a Vassal to the Lender Oligarchy).

 

[Overimprovement]

This comment suggests a residential appraiser is opining on non-residential appraisals and doesn't truly understand the entire picture. While the residential real estate market is more (maybe mostly) driven by emotion, the commercial real estate market is more (maybe mostly) driven by money...cold, hard cash. Why would an investor in Timbuktu, seeking the highest return on his capital, care if a property is in Dayton, Cleveland, Philadelphia, or Atlanta if they conclude that they have reasonably equal prospects for achieving their investment goals in each? That is the fundamental power of a cap rate. While those engaged mostly in appraising residential real estate might conclude that if rents in Dayton were $10/ft² and were $15/ft² in Atlanta, a location adjustment is mandatory, an investor or competent appraiser can recognize that a cap rate of 10% in each case reflects equality.

I was the last one who thought a new office building being constructed in Sydney, Montana, in 2006 (population 4,778 after trending mostly down for 20 years (where locally relevant real estate was barely saleable) could relate to similar properties in Tennessee, Ohio, Utah, Oregon, Colorado, or North Dakota, but after actually doing the work (rather than ignorantly whining about what I didn't comprehend on a forum), it is inconceivable that a location adjustment was warranted between those properties and my subject. Cap rates were all between 7.1% and 9.3% and averaged about 7.8%, with Pembina, ND (population 579 and falling) being the outlier. Even more shocking is that all of these properties, mostly constructed for lease to US Government specs for US Government occupation, involved leases that allowed the tenant to cancel the lease with 30 days written notice. Again, doing the work led to a conclusion that investors in these properties did not view that as a risk because most were not aware of even a single instance where that had occurred.

As an aside, I see a lot of comments from "residential" appraisers about how deficient appraisals of any property type are when completed by "general certified" appraisers (and vice versa), and how any appraisals done by "designated" appraisers are inferior to any ever done by any appraiser lacking the motivation or acumen to become designated. These comments, viewed generously, suggest that these commentators, engaged in the business of analyzing and explaining variation in real estate prices, are fundamentally incapable of identifying extraneous data. Less generously, these commentators exhibit maturity equal to what I remember on the playground in about the third grade. Either way, such comments almost always paint the commentator as petty and jealous more than they detract from other licensees or designees.

Your comments clearly display the arrogance of many commercial appraisers I have had to "discuss" reports with. As a commercial credit manager for banks. Your comments lean on the income approach to validate your point, but last I checked the SCA is where location adjustments go. And FTR, I deal with many owner occupied buildings as well, where an income approach is completely irrelevant. The example I gave was for a school. It's HABU was and likely (because of zoning) always would be...a school. But it's stupid to assume a "residential" appraiser could possibly understand such complex concepts, huh?

 

[Airstream]

Bringing this back to topic:
1) Talked to a staff appraiser of a large bank today (had to talk about a mixed use property). Asked about the new form, and he said there is only one small company that has a complete form. The 3 big ones (ACI, Total, Bradford) don’t have anything workable yet. And he doubts they will be ready in time for much work. He frankly expects there to be a delay. The banks are just not ready to process this stuff.
He also said he expects (as I do) these software companies at some point will go broke. As appraisers leave, there will be less buyers. The cost of doing this entire revision has to be astronomical. And he stated the bugs are going to be on both ends of the network.
2) As to the old UAD. The change was a pain. It took at least an extra 30 minutes initially to sift through all nonsense. Thankfully, alamode had the UAD check. The only real complaint I had with the UAD is the inability to structure the report in a way that made sense because at the time I was doing lots of waterfront properties. I got so much push back from underwriters while doing waterfront when I didn’t make acreage adjustments; instead I made frontage adjustments on a different line. The other part was “living” with the ratings. I struggled for awhile deciding whether to rate properties a certain way since it wasn’t always cut and dry. And by the way appraisers still haven’t figured out the differences in quality ratings. I see properties marked Q3 and they are Q4. They see a Q3 and they mark it Q2. They have no idea. And it is clear they haven’t ever worked in an upscale area. Initially I think the ratings scenario added 15 to 30 minutes per report. Now I can whip through it pretty quickly. WHAT we are seeing now is the UAD on steroids. It will make the old UAD look like a picnic. I watched a video on Bradfords Nighthawk, and the grids are expandable to 140 spaces (did I hear that right)? Can’t imagine.
3) So the bottom line is: I think (IMHO) implementation by the end of 2026 may well be a pipe dream. In fact the staff appraiser I talked to said he can’t imagine it working that soon; maybe 2027. Too many hiccups along the way. Second, if you can get out (close to retirement or have another occupation) think hard about doing it. All my dues come up in November, so I have to make a choice. I am about 50/50. If I can use the old form for another year…., but maybe I pull the plug sooner and just figure out something else to do with my time. Will happen at some point. Why not now? I don’t need the money. It’s just a way to keep my brain active and get out and about. Maybe (God forbid) I go and reup my real estate license. Unfortunately, when I moved to a different location I left a lot of private work on the table. Trying to rebuild the private work end of the business is more than I want to hassle with at 70.