No College Degree for Cert Generals or Residential Appraisers

[Dale Floyd]

A great amount of CG's and CR's in this country, have no degree as they became certified in the beginning of FIRREA. Recently, an extremely successful attorney passed who had never been to college because in his day, only law school was required to take the bar exam.

I have been saying this from the beginning of time. The degree is nothing more than an advertisement of the college world, and that has failed us all. There are classes, however, on the college level that should be taken as requirements to be an appraiser that involves accounting, finance, business, and possibly others that involve communication/writing skills. Taking biology, history, and liberal arts have nothing to do with our industry. There are CG's today that have no degree but who are even more successful than the newer CG's who have stepped into the field with 4 year degrees and a truckload of student debt. It's madness, and it's hard to believe any true analyst hasn't seen it for what it is.

The McDonald's management guy mentioned earlier, has the same degree required to be a professional appraiser, and somebody thinks that's the reason we ought to have the degree? In order to compete with his resume? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I applaud many of the things in the proposals. Not everything is great, but a lot of it takes away all that nonsense about stars on bellies.

 

[chad hampton]

It has nothing to do with what you learned in college. When you raise a barrier of entry and make it even a little bit difficult, the people you attract have more respect for the profession - because they have skin in the game and it took a little effort to get there. Therefore, you raise the level of professionalism. There’s a lot of people out there in the world that would make fantastic doctors, but they aren’t willing to go through the work that it takes to get into that profession. And that’s also why there’s an expectation of high professionalism from the practitioners in the field.

It’s small minded thinking to only be concerned with the minimal level of what someone needs to know to do a job.

Currently, we have out of work realtors and part-time Uber drivers that are driving all over this country doing appraisal inspection/services. If you think they are doing a thorough job, you have your head up your ***. It’s really that simple. They could care less about what they’re producing for $50. And unless the folks sitting on these boards and the three letter agencies are real two digit IQ folks, and I know they are not, you have to wonder why they don’t care?

 

[chad hampton]

So you are okay kock blocking people from entering the profession with artificial barriers? How does a $100k degree in underwater anthropology of autistic gay jellyfish apply to the appraisal profession? If someone can prove they have the skills to do they work via proper course work, passing appropriate examination, plus getting their hours in - why should they not be able to? Are some appraisers here that desperate and greedy ("**** you I got mine" attitude)? Anyways, even removing the pointless degree requirement - I really doubt we will see a surge of new appraisers. It's just not a sexy industry and takes years to start making money vs some alternatives like programming or plumbing (who hit the ground making bank, also with no degree required).

I have several friends who are entering the trades. One of them is a welder, he took a nine month welding class at a community college and is now training under somebody. Plumbers may not have a class, but they do train for several years under a certified plumber.

Why should appraising have lower barriers of entry than those?

I’ll answer my own question, those fields don’t have massive nationwide corporations just looking to churn out garbage products for the most profit. Those are fields that go into small businesses where reputation and work product matter.

 

[chad hampton]

Yep. The only way this industry becomes attractive again is if TAF, the GSEs, the insta-toot, etc. focus on the gorilla in the room: Compensation.

But we all know that won't happen. Our industry is turning into a churn and burn field like car sales and real estate sales, and that only benefits course providers and REVAA members.

I wish everybody here would have an opportunity to sit in a room and listen to revaa members talk to regulators. You would fall off your chair in disbelief.

 

[Dale Floyd]

 

[J Grant]

A great amount of CG's and CR's in this country, have no degree as they became certified in the beginning of FIRREA. Recently, an extremely successful attorney passed who had never been to college because in his day, only law school was required to take the bar exam.

I have been saying this from the beginning of time. The degree is nothing more than an advertisement of the college world, and that has failed us all. There are classes, however, on the college level that should be taken as requirements to be an appraiser that involves accounting, finance, business, and possibly others that involve communication/writing skills. Taking biology, history, and liberal arts have nothing to do with our industry. There are CG's today that have no degree but who are even more successful than the newer CG's who have stepped into the field with 4 year degrees and a truckload of student debt. It's madness, and it's hard to believe any true analyst hasn't seen it for what it is.

The McDonald's management guy mentioned earlier, has the same degree required to be a professional appraiser, and somebody thinks that's the reason we ought to have the degree? In order to compete with his resume? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I applaud many of the things in the proposals. Not everything is great, but a lot of it takes away all that nonsense about stars on bellies.Yo

Your argument holds no water. Many of the appraisers who have degrees, whether Cert Gen or Cert Res went on to have better careers and went on to get an MAI or SRA or went into the management end. IDK how the grandfathered in Cert gens with no degree do compared to the competition. And not every graduate has high student debt. There are state colleges with lower tuition, the GI bill for service, scholarships etc. The argument from non-degree people is always along the lines above and misses the point- it is the humanities courses in college that develop the perspective and reasoning, not the hard skills courses. That is why the military, law enforcement want a degree for more responsibility and positions where decision-making and strategy prevail.

The proof is the really low performance of some appraisers who manage to pass the rote questions on a license exam, but then get stumped as soon as an assignment requires critical thinking. We see these posts all the time on here, asking for help because they are facing some difficulty in an assignment and lack the capacity to reason through it and apply what they memorized (memorized as opposed to learn, being unable to apply it other than in a rote situation )

It goes without saying there are excellent appraisers who have no degree and likely some bad ones with a degree; however, the large number of really shoddy work that the lack of entry brings about, coupled with the AMC's low fee system for profiteerign, won. Dropping the degree requirement was about getting a higher volume of warm bodies into the field who would work cheaper to benefit the AMC's and the GSE's were on board with it along with them enabling the next step down for even less qualified ( no appraisal license ) warm bodies to do the PDC collection for even less money. That is where the res mortgage lending field ended up when that first step was taken to remove the college degree. Those without degrees would have been grandfathered in and benefited. But they chose to make a resentment-filled argument and look where it ended. The reality of the outcome speaks for itself.

 

[Digger88]

This is excellent news back to the good ole days when I sat at home and just reviewed reports.

 

[gregb]

An exposure draft will be released on December 3rd by the Appraiser Qualifications Board (AQB) in response to the comments received on several concept papers, some of which I haven't seen. This exposure draft is a comprehensive rewrite with 123 pages of new qualifications criteria. The AQB shared the findings at the Appraisal Foundation Advisory Committee meeting.
Here are the ten proposed changes:
1 ALL COLLEGE DEGREE REQUIREMENTS WILL BE ELIMINATED
2 All electives will be removed.
3 More detailed National Exam outline available to ensure aspiring appraisers understand what education they need to prepare for the test.
4 New qualifying education will be added focusing on relevant topics.
5 The exam can be taken after education, prior to experience.
6 The continuing education requirement for trainees will be removed.
7 Supervisory Appraisers may be allowed to have more than three trainees at a time.
8 Appraisals that are legally confidential will be allowed for experience along with 3 USPAP compliant reports.
9 Appraisals that are written to International Valuation Standards will be allowed for experience along with 3 USPAP compliant reports.
10 Mass Appraisal experience will count toward experience credit.
Any of this disturb you? You need to take the time to read the draft and send your comments to the AQB. You can also register for the AQB Virtual Public Meeting on December 5th at AQB

 

[cashcatz]

Why should appraising have lower barriers of entry than those?

Only a very small subset of degrees are applicable to the appraisal profession, and even those require sitting through a lot of overpriced debt exploding fluff classes. But if we're going to do the college requirement thing, do it right - only allow real estate, accounting and math related degrees!

 

[J Grant]

I wish everybody here would have an opportunity to sit in a room and listen to revaa members talk to regulators. You would fall off your chair in disbelief.

We've probably already heard it here from the schills within our own profession. idk, does it have to do with lower risk? Effiecincy?

I have several friends who are entering the trades. One of them is a welder, he took a nine month welding class at a community college and is now training under somebody. Plumbers may not have a class, but they do train for several years under a certified plumber.

Why should appraising have lower barriers of entry than those?

I’ll answer my own question, those fields don’t have massive nationwide corporations just looking to churn out garbage products for the most profit. Those are fields that go into small businesses where reputation and work product matter.

Though trades are respectable work and some trades pay higher than fields that require degrees, the trades are about applying a specific skill rather than intellectual conceptualizing and strategic thinking or applying multiple perspectives. This does not reflect in any way on the intelligence level of people who go into trades vs professions.

It is about what is needed to perform well in a field. Some degree fields do not pay that well, such as social work or teaching ( though they offer benefits and stability). The people who go into those fields have a passion to teach or to help others.

What I see in posts from some appraisers who may not have degrees is an inability to apply what they have learned conceptually as well as a kind of rote, or segmented thinking. Appraising is about integrating many parts into a whole. The ultimate dumbing down is that the profiteers won, making it into a sped up assembly line of piece work with non-appraisers doing the PDC in a rote manner ( not allowed to express an opinion to prevent crossing the line )

The rony is the speed or cheapness of cutting up appraisals like fast food or using an alternative valuation product, is it will not increase the volume of loans or provide more profit to lenders. When they all offer the same cheaper valuation or speed they end up right where they are now. There is a finite number of loans made a year and cheapening the valuation does not change that. It does provide a revenue stream to third parties.