FHA permanent heat source question

[Airstream]

Virtually anything can be unbolted and removed. Using that as a threshold, nothing is permanent.

Not familiar with the local climate of your subject but from my trips to TX, what you describe should be adequate.

That’s not the point. You can rip out baseboard electric heat. Heck you can rip out a furnace. But it is still considered permanent because it is hardwired into the property. These are not hardwired and therefore, by definition are not permanent.

Here’s the definition;For an FHA loan, a permanent heat source must be a hardwired, built-in system that automatically heats all habitable rooms and plumbing areas to at least 50°F without human intervention. It must be safe, code-compliant, and use a readily obtainable fuel source. Portable space heaters and unattached units do not qualify!!!!

 

[Mark K]

That’s not the point. You can rip out baseboard electric heat. Heck you can rip out a furnace. But it is still considered permanent because it is hardwired into the property. These are not hardwired and therefore, by definition are not permanent.

Here’s the definition;For an FHA loan, a permanent heat source must be a hardwired, built-in system that automatically heats all habitable rooms and plumbing areas to at least 50°F without human intervention. It must be safe, code-compliant, and use a readily obtainable fuel source. Portable space heaters and unattached units do not qualify!!!!

In your first post, you said that thoughts would be appreciated. Apparently, that was a lie.

 

[Mike Ault]

i. Heating and Cooling Systems

The Appraiser must examine the heating system to determine if it is adequate for
healthful and comfortable living conditions, regardless of design, fuel or heat source.
The Appraiser must notify the Mortgagee of the deficiency of MPR or MPS if the
permanently installed heating system does not:
• automatically heat the living areas of the house to a minimum of 50 degrees
Fahrenheit in all GLAs, as well as in non-GLAs containing building or system
components subject to failure or damage due to freezing;
• provide healthful and comfortable heat or is not safe to operate;
• rely upon a fuel source that is readily obtainable within the subject’s geographic
area;
• have market acceptance within the subject’s marketplace; and
• operate without human intervention for extended periods of time.

Don't see anything in there mentioning "hardwired". For all we know, the "smart wall heating unit" the OP referenced is bolted directly to the outlet with no extension cord. That's why I requested a picture of it.

Excerpted from HUD handbook 4000.1, page 831
Rev 08/13/2025

 

[Dublin ohio]

For all we know, the "smart wall heating unit" the OP referenced is bolted directly to the outlet with no extension cord.

The OP said it plugs into the wall. Hard to do that without a cord

 

[Mike Ault]

The OP said it plug into the wall. Hard to do that without a cord

I've seen electrical devices that plug into & over the outlet and secure themselves with the cover plate screw. Typically multiple outlet receptacles. I have no idea what a "smart wall heater" is, could be installed the same.

 

[Dublin ohio]

I've seen electrical devices that plug into & over the outlet and secure themselves with the cover plate screw. Typically multiple outlet receptacles. I have no idea what a "smart wall heater" is, could be installed the same.

Nice try, apples and oranges. But you knew that

 

[Airstream]

In your first post, you said that thoughts would be appreciated. Apparently, that was a lie.

I didn’t originally post. I’m simply responding to this idea that the heating elements in the home that the original poster had are inadequate.

 

[Mike Ault]

Nice try, apples and oranges. But you knew that

No, can't you envision a smart wall heater plugging directly into the outlet like this?

Now imagine something bigger and better and smarter…

 

[Dublin ohio]

No, can't you envision a smart wall heater plugging directly into the outlet like this?
View attachment 111105
Now imagine something bigger and better and smarter…

That leaves you out

 

[Airstream]

i. Heating and Cooling Systems

The Appraiser must examine the heating system to determine if it is adequate for
healthful and comfortable living conditions, regardless of design, fuel or heat source.
The Appraiser must notify the Mortgagee of the deficiency of MPR or MPS if the
permanently installed heating system does not:
• automatically heat the living areas of the house to a minimum of 50 degrees
Fahrenheit in all GLAs, as well as in non-GLAs containing building or system
components subject to failure or damage due to freezing;
• provide healthful and comfortable heat or is not safe to operate;
• rely upon a fuel source that is readily obtainable within the subject’s geographic
area;
• have market acceptance within the subject’s marketplace; and
• operate without human intervention for extended periods of time.

Don't see anything in there mentioning "hardwired". For all we know, the "smart wall heating unit" the OP referenced is bolted directly to the outlet with no extension cord. That's why I requested a picture of it.

Excerpted from HUD handbook 4000.1, page 831
Rev 08/13/2025

So do you think space heater is plugged into the outlet and bolted to the wall is acceptable in the marketplace? I am really surprised that you guys would sign a report. This has a permanent adequate heat source in the home and you would be OK with defending that on an EO complaint.