Intimidation....I Will Not Be Silenced

[Retired-70]

Ummm. Talked to Grok, and it said it depends on the state. For Georgia and California, it said that, as far as it could tell, nothing prevents an AMC from not doing business with an appraiser solely because the appraiser criticized another AMC. However, if the appraiser is already on the panel of said AMC, they must give the appraiser written notice in accordance with state statutes. That is kind of surprising. The appraisers are in a poor lot. They are not recognized as having a legitimate say in how the profession is run. For some good reasons and for some bad reasons. The whole appraisal system is kind of like that. Although there are not just a few appraisers grumbling about the system - it seems fairly widespread, at least if you can believe the private conversations between appraisers, - and maybe you can't - maybe they just talk the talk to please whoever is around them and then walk away with completely different opinions. You will never know for sure.

But look, if they don't like the fact that a certain appraiser is criticizing another AMC in a public forum, then that appraiser should probably not be doing business with that AMC.

Just because you are an appraiser doesn't mean you have to like the status quo of the profession. Just because some company is an appraisal vendor or management company of some type doesn't mean they have to do business with people they regard as unpleasant - unless there are explicit statutes that say otherwise.

So if you are really displeased with the system you are in, you perhaps should consider extricating yourself from it. You know, like John Kiriakou with the CIA. He blew the whistle on the CIA's 9/11 related torturing programs, was found innocent by the CIA of any wrongdoing, but was subsequently thrown into prison by Obama for 23 months, and came out with the realization that his new sole purpose in life was to expose the truth about the CIA - insofar as he was able to get around classified material. [ And some wonder whether the CIA actually promoted him to his newfound status on YouTube. ]. It's a twisted, messed up world.

 

[chad hampton]

I believe the OP indicated he didn't work with either AMC.

I think it's normal for people who had to work for years and years to get clients to be a little upset that the gov't took them away and handed their clients over to a handful of their friends who own massive AMCs. I think it would be odd if you didn't feel that way.

If they don't like being talked about that way, they can change their business model at any time.

 

[J Grant]

They are coming after our independent businesses. Not sure if they will worm their way into General Practice, but I'm sure they're working on it.

The other reason AMCs are highly unlikely to gain traction with private work/GP is that, in general practice, the customer or client is allowed to select their own appraiser. Thus, a lawyer can pick the appraiser; a tax accountant, estate planner, property owner, etc., are allowed to pick their own appraiser.

In regulated lender work, an individual loan officer can not select an appraiser, and of course, as we know, a borrower cannot select an appraiser. This constricts the ordering pool into a very narrow channel which the AMCs can exploit to their advantage. In the private sector, there are tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of possible clients or customers, who sure as sh**t do not need an AMC to pick out an appraiser for them, much less "manage: an order- thus the AMCs cannot compete in the free market.

And in their controlled, entitled govt perk HUD bundled fee niche, the AMC entitlement allowed their greed to lead to an exorbitant split of the appraisal fee, which would never see the light of day in a free market.

 

[J Grant]

I believe the OP indicated he didn't work with either AMC.

I think it's normal for people who had to work for years and years to get clients to be a little upset that the gov't took them away and handed their clients over to a handful of their friends who own massive AMCs. I think it would be odd if you didn't feel that way.

If they don't like being talked about that way, they can change their business model at any time.

The commercial license folks like GH did not expeirence what res license people experienced- where, overnight, after the HVCC, an appraiser saw nearly all, or in some cases all, the clients they worked hard to get migrate to AMCs, and the appraiser fee cut in half.

Thus, the dry, academic arguments can be irritating to those who experienced massive income loss and may have had to leave the business or cave in or do other things to keep afloat; I spent down my savings to get away from AMC work (which I took initially to survive) as it took years to regain direct clients. If I had invested those savings instead, I would be retired by now. A lot of us invested years and $ only to lose it after the AMCs came in large scale.

 

[djd09]

idk why are we calling them AMC's anymore...they are appraisal firms which makes them direct competitors

 

[J Grant]

idk why are we calling them AMC's anymore...they are appraisal firms which makes them direct competitors

They function like giant appraisal firms, but technically, they are AMCs. In fact, any appraisal firm which hires /engages more than X number of appraisers must register as an AMC.

Of course, individual appraisers find it extremely difficult to compete against an AMC in the regulated lender work realm; thus, many appraisers cave in to working for an AMC for low fees or a low salary. An appraiser who claims they do not understand it is either a shill or living under a rock.

 

[djd09]

you can put lipstick on a pig...but its a pig

anyways

revaa members are the low of the low...but now they are proud paying sponsors of taf ask frank

 

[chad hampton]

idk why are we calling them AMC's anymore...they are appraisal firms which makes them direct competitors

I expect more of this to come to light, hopefully it isn't too late. We already know it's a violation of laws, but it's very unfair to the real appraisal firms out there. AMC are now in direct competition with them and they have access of CU which benefits their staff. And they have direct access to the loan production teams, which the appraisal firm with 5-10 employees is prohibited from doing. AMC can assign to any staff they want, but when the send to a firm, it goes directly to an appraiser, and the firm has to jump through hoops to re-assign. It's anti-competitive at it's core.

The regulators are always a few steps behind the snake oil creatures, but that's assuming they're are looking. Which I don't think is the case.

 

[George Hatch]

The commercial license folks like GH did not expeirence what res license people experienced- where, overnight, after the HVCC, an appraiser saw nearly all, or in some cases all, the clients they worked hard to get migrate to AMCs, and the appraiser fee cut in half.

Thus, the dry, academic arguments can be irritating to those who experienced massive income loss and may have had to leave the business or cave in or do other things to keep afloat; I spent down my savings to get away from AMC work (which I took initially to survive) as it took years to regain direct clients. If I had invested those savings instead, I would be retired by now. A lot of us invested years and $ only to lose it after the AMCs came in large scale.

So what? You don't have the lived experience of taking the financial hit I suffered when I made the biggest gamble of my career and transitioned out of doing 1-4s for myself into going to work as a salaried employee to learn non-resd'l appraising. You don't have the lived experience of committing to just the one source of assignments, only to get laid off right as the market was tanking. Going from having a salary to having ZERO income in one day. I went straight to an SFR fee shop to work for splits because I had a family to support. Don't tell me I don't know what it's like to have backed the wrong horse and paid the price for it.

You didn't have that experience, but I'm pretty sure you understand the level of pain that was involved.
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None of which has any bearing on the fact that its the lenders who have called the shots on direct engagement vs AMC engagement all along. It's the AMC users who buy the bundled fee and who do not care what your end is.

And yes, the fee appraisers compete directly with the AMCs for those clients. They always have.

 

[chad hampton]

AMCs and appraisers aren’t supposed to be competing for ****.

we’re partners. Remember?

Funny how things change when regulation and enforcement goes away.