Intimidation....I Will Not Be Silenced

[chad hampton]

If USPAP requires a physical inspection ? wouldn't drive byes be illegal ? or is looking at the property from the street considered a real physical inspection....lol )

Try and keep up. No one has ever argued that USPAP requires a physical inspection, but it does provide guidance on the inspection when a physical inspection is required. Or at least used to. Before the AMC trade group lobbied and got it removed.

You would think that would be an important topic for the industry book on standards, morals, and ethics. But nah. Not when the breakfast club has money to make.

 

[Zoe]

Try and keep up. USPAP does not require a physical inspection, but it does provide guidance on the inspection when a physical inspection is required. Or at least used to. Before the AMC trade group lobbied and got it removed.

You would think that would be an important topic for the industry book on standards, morals, and ethics. But nah. Not when the breakfast club has money to make.

Yeah...........public trust.....cough

 

[chad hampton]

It’s such a weak argument - because USPAP does not require an inspection we can leap to that must mean anybody can do the inspection. Just as strange as the argument of since you rely on flood map information from a third-party (a 3rd party of professional degrees hydrologists). that means you can use a third-party for anything and everything else in an appraisal. It’s tremendously flawed logic, and if it wasn’t backed up with intimidation and threats, the arguments would’ve been tossed out a long time ago.

 

[Zoe]

It’s such a weak argument - because USPAP does not require an inspection we can leap to that must mean anybody can do the inspection. Just as strange as the argument of since you rely on flood map information from a third-party (a 3rd party of professional degrees hydrologists). that means you can use a third-party for anything and everything else in an appraisal. It’s tremendously flawed logic, and if it wasn’t backed up with intimidation and threats, the arguments would’ve been tossed out a long time ago.

Yes and the very heart of USPAP is public trust.

Think about how the public is being deceived.

 

[alebrewer]

It would be like, instead of eating a meal in a restaurant for a restaurant review, the person got a list of ingredients and a photo of the meal. Not quite the same.

Actually, a more accurate analogy would be if, instead of going out and buying the ingredients yourself, the ingredients were purchased for you to cook. Sure - you didn't get to 'choose' the ingredients personally, but you still get to inspect them when they arrive at your house. You still get to choose what to use and what not to use. You still get to choose which ingredients are relevant and which aren't.

You're welcome.

 

[DWiley]

Why are data collectors calling out repairs? They just take pictures , no opinions allowed.

The data collectors do not call out repairs. They simply report things. It is the appraiser who takes the PDR and uses that as the basis for making the appraisal subject to a repair or subject to an inspection. The thing is, when something is already reported in a PDR the appraiser cannot make the choice to just ignore something or not take a photo of it, as they can when they are doing the inspection themselves.

Some appraisers think that if they make the appraisal subject to inspection or subject to repair, it "counts" against them somehow. It is not uncommon, for example, for a home to have standing water in the basement. That should be an automatic "subject to inspection" (or repair), but some will ignore it, maybe say it is common for the area, sometimes not even include a photo and move on.

And, how many posts have there been on this site where appraisers talk about how fast they do inspection or how many they do in a day? Is it really shocking that the data shows that some are missing things? No one is perfect, and everyone will occasionally miss something, but that is far more likely to happen when one is rushing through the home and trying to squeeze as many into a day as possible.

 

[J Grant]

Actually, a more accurate analogy would be if, instead of going out and buying the ingredients yourself, the ingredients were purchased for you to cook. Sure - you didn't get to 'choose' the ingredients personally, but you still get to inspect them when they arrive at your house. You still get to choose what to use and what not to use. You still get to choose which ingredients are relevant and which aren't.

You're welcome.

My idea was to compare it to a restaurant reviewer asked to review a meal and the experience of dining in that restaurant. Instead of the reviewer being allowed to eat a meal at the restaurant, a "data collector" was sent to the restaurant, who took photos of the meal and handed the reviewer a list of the ingredients.

I guess I did not explain the analogy as thoroughly as I thought!

 

[J Grant]

The data collectors do not call out repairs. They simply report things. It is the appraiser who takes the PDR and uses that as the basis for making the appraisal subject to a repair or subject to an inspection. The thing is, when something is already reported in a PDR the appraiser cannot make the choice to just ignore something or not take a photo of it, as they can when they are doing the inspection themselves.

Some appraisers think that if they make the appraisal subject to inspection or subject to repair, it "counts" against them somehow. It is not uncommon, for example, for a home to have standing water in the basement. That should be an automatic "subject to inspection" (or repair), but some will ignore it, maybe say it is common for the area, sometimes not even include a photo and move on.

And, how many posts have there been on this site where appraisers talk about how fast they do inspection or how many they do in a day? Is it really shocking that the data shows that some are missing things? No one is perfect, and everyone will occasionally miss something, but that is far more likely to happen when one is rushing through the home and trying to squeeze as many into a day as possible.

The appraisers rushing to squeeze in a lot of inspections into a day are often doing it for an AMC to make up for the low fees. Or on staff at a low salary and high quota ( uh oh - I can anticpate the reort - you have seen some terrible work done for high fees ! There are always exceptions, but it does not address the issue. The AMC's send work to the cheapest fee appraisers. If they have 15 appraisers on a panel in a county, and 3 charge or bid the lowest fees, those 3 are piled with volume, racing around on multiple inspections - the remaining 12 might get one or two a month from the AMC.

You have brought up the basement standing water issue with the appraiser before here. Clearly, that is wrong. Since it is the same example given, a repair issue of that magnitude not being reported is not often the case .

What kind of repair issues are reported in a PDR collection that an appraiser might not mention or photo? Appraisers are taught that unless a repair issue presents a safety or health problem to the property and thus needs to be made subject to inspection or repair, it is not mentioned; it gets included in the condition ratings, such as C 4 might not be so much about repair issues as about deferred maintenance with an older yet functional roof. Would a PDR person touring a C 4 house mention a repair for a minor crack in the tile? IDK.

 

[alebrewer]

My idea was to compare it to a restaurant reviewer asked to review a meal and the experience of dining in that restaurant. Instead of the reviewer being allowed to eat a meal at the restaurant, a "data collector" was sent to the restaurant, who took photos of the meal and handed the reviewer a list of the ingredients.

I guess I did not explain the analogy as thoroughly as I thought!

Still doesn't work, J. The appraiser is still the one preparing the appraisal - even in a hybrid situation. It's so crazy to me that appraisers were more than willing to provide 2055's without even an ounce of hesitation, but by God - don't ask us about limiting the scope of work for the 1004! We can develop credible opinions of value without seeing the subject, but only so long as they're reported on the 2055. Don't even think about asking us to do that with the 1004.

 

[Bob Ipock]

Was the OP post from the person who wrote the book? The book was mentioned by a different poster on this thread.

The post was from an appraiser who said they mentioned the issues with AMC publicly. Not sure exactly what that means.

Free speech covers writing books, chatting on social media, etc.

You need to read the First Amendment. Free speech means and says the government may not hinder your free speech. There is no guarantee of free speech between citizens.

Text of the First Amendment​

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances Constitution Annotated+1.