1004D:Major Form

[Webbed Feet]

Thank you for your response Webbed. Sorry if I sound a bit cranky, but these crazy requests are driving me nuts. Plus I have two mortgage brokers trying to get me to take a smaller fee for not coming in to value because all the other appraisers do it, and Fiserv trying to screw me out of an exterior inspection fee.

Hey no problem! I sound cranky all the time! LOL... Yeah, on those mortgage brokers. Tell them to provide documentation proving an Oregon appraiser quoted one fee and then charged another just because the value opinion wasn't what they wanted it to be. Required for your consideration would be all the emails, the original engagement contract, the written agreement to take less due to a lower value outcome, and a copy of the check for the lessor amount or the refund check sent them by the appraiser. After they provide all that kindly forward all of it to me would you? :icon_evil:

Regarding Fiserv...... that is why I am CAD or other form of prepaid only. All appraisers need to take their power back by all of us refusing to invoice anyone... It's retainer only for our industry and this flat fee nonsense needs to go the way of the Dodo bird also.

But I'm a rogue duck...

Webbed.

 

[OSU Beavers]

They still don't get it "The lender just wants an ROV not a new appraisal". The original report was completed "as is".

 

[Marcia Langley]

OSU,

There are three ways to report a new appraisal that is a "new assignment of a prior assignment" as outlined in AO3 lines 37-44 and lines 54-70.

1. A new appraisal from scratch that meets Standards 1 & 2.

2. A new appraisal that meets Standards 1 & 2 and also incorporates the old appraisal by attachment.

3. A new appraisal that meets Standards 1 & 2 and also incorporates the old appraisal by reference. This option can only be used for the original client.

Notice option one can be done by any appraiser for any client.

Option 2 could be done for a different client but you'd likely need the first client's permission.

Option 3 can not be done for a different client.

Regardless of the nomenclature used by the client (line 37) this is the guideline.

All you can do is tell the client what you can do and he has the choice to either order the service or not.

One thing that makes clients resist this truth is that they think a "recert" should be cheaper than a "new appraisal". They think a 1004d should be cheaper than a new appraisal.

It is usually fruitless to try to make them understand the correct nomenclature. They'll argue with you forever about that.

It may be helpfull to your conversation with them to simply tell them that regardless of what they call it and regardless of what form it is on, the fee would be the same. That is what they are usually worried about.

Since Standards 1 & 2 have to be met in every case and since there are some things you won't have to do over in any case, the cost plus profit for you to do the work would be the same no matter what you call it and regardless of the form used.

Not only that but it is actually faster and cheaper to use the full form as opposed to the stupid 1004d.

Appraisers who charge less for that 1004d form are cheating themselves (or are not complying with Standards 1 & 2.)

 

[Marcia Langley]

I would also add that if it were not for the request of the new appraisal, the lower half of the 1004d could have been used as a completion report except for one thing. It's not the same client.

And even if it had been the same client the new effective date makes it necessary to do the new site visit and comply with Standards 1 & 2, anyway.

 

[Lee Lansford]

OSU,

There are three ways to report a new appraisal that is a "new assignment of a prior assignment" as outlined in AO3 lines 37-44 and lines 54-70.

1. A new appraisal from scratch that meets Standards 1 & 2.

2. A new appraisal that meets Standards 1 & 2 and also incorporates the old appraisal by attachment.

3. A new appraisal that meets Standards 1 & 2 and also incorporates the old appraisal by reference. This option can only be used for the original client.

Notice option one can be done by any appraiser for any client.

Option 2 could be done for a different client but you'd likely need the first client's permission.

Option 3 can not be done for a different client.

Regardless of the nomenclature used by the client (line 37) this is the guideline.

All you can do is tell the client what you can do and he has the choice to either order the service or not.

One thing that makes clients resist this truth is that they think a "recert" should be cheaper than a "new appraisal". They think a 1004d should be cheaper than a new appraisal.

It is usually fruitless to try to make them understand the correct nomenclature. They'll argue with you forever about that.

It may be helpfull to your conversation with them to simply tell them that regardless of what they call it and regardless of what form it is on, the fee would be the same. That is what they are usually worried about.

Since Standards 1 & 2 have to be met in every case and since there are some things you won't have to do over in any case, the cost plus profit for you to do the work would be the same no matter what you call it and regardless of the form used.

Not only that but it is actually faster and cheaper to use the full form as opposed to the stupid 1004d.

Appraisers who charge less for that 1004d form are cheating themselves (or are not complying with Standards 1 & 2.)

What Marcia said.

 

[Webbed Feet]

They still don't get it "The lender just wants an ROV not a new appraisal". The original report was completed "as is".

Dear potential client,

Your lender wants a new, more recent, effective date with my opinion of value as of that date. This is defined to be a real estate appraisal and due to the new effective date is a "New Appraisal." So here is what we can do. For a new appraisal my fee is $400. For a ROV that looks mysteriously just like a new appraisal, my fee is $600. Which do you prefer? I can get either one completed for you by xx/xx/2008 depending on if you order that new appraisal right away or delay and don't.

Webbed.

 

[OSU Beavers]

They still don't get it

I verified with the lender and they say a recertification of value as you describe as this is what they want:

The appraiser’s definition of "recertification of value" as described in USPAP states: "A Recertification of Value is performed to confirm whether or not the conditions of a prior appraisal have been met … It does not change the effective date of the value opinion".

They are not asking for a new effective date. The definition above is what they are only in need of. Please advise when you can provide this. m2:

 

[timd354]

I verified with the lender and they say a recertification of value as you describe as this is what they want:

The appraiser’s definition of "recertification of value" as described in USPAP states: "A Recertification of Value is performed to confirm whether or not the conditions of a prior appraisal have been met … It does not change the effective date of the value opinion".

They are not asking for a new effective date. The definition above is what they are only in need of. Please advise when you can provide this. m2:

They are lying to you....if that is all they need, then you could just provide a compliance inspection.....run that by them.....I bet that they won't go for it, because they are undoubtedly looking for an "update of value" or a statement from you that the market conditions have not declined or some such similar nonsense. What they really need is a new appraisal with a more current effective date but they either don't fwant to pay for a new appraisal or they realize that the value is no longer there.

 

[Marcia Langley]

I verified with the lender and they say a recertification of value as you describe as this is what they want:

The appraiser’s definition of "recertification of value" as described in USPAP states: "A Recertification of Value is performed to confirm whether or not the conditions of a prior appraisal have been met … It does not change the effective date of the value opinion".

They are not asking for a new effective date. The definition above is what they are only in need of. Please advise when you can provide this. m2:

OSU,

I'm not sure your client understands that the highlighted passage means a completion report only.

Not a comment in any way about the value.

==========

Your current client want's to know whether the previously reported value is still valid. "Still valid" means "as of today" which means "a new effective date."

It would not make sense for your new client to ask whether the opinion of value were still valid for the original effective date. That would be like asking, "How badly did you screw up your original report?"

The only answer you could give to that question is, "I stand by my original appraisal as of it's effective date."

You would not send any sort of report to answer that question. Unless you sent a true copy of the original report. And since this is a different client, you can't even do that.

=======

Try telling them this: A stand alone completion report has a new effective date for the completion status of the completion items but does not have a new effective date for the opinion of value.

Any comment on value, as a separate issue from the completion status of the completion items, would have an effective date as of today.

There is no way to make a comment about value without a new effective date.

 

[Jo Ann Meyer Stratton]

I join Lee Lansford in saying me too to what Marcia said.

Questions to client instead of terms. Do you want me to consider current market data? If the answer is yes, then an update to an appraisal. The appraiser then decides what would be appropriate way to answer that question.

If the client answers No I do not want you consider current market data, I want to know if they built the house they way your appraisal describes. The bottom part of the 1004D is used to answer that question.

If the client answers No I just want to know if your really and truly said that on January 15, 2007 that your opinion of value was $10,000. Then you write a USPAP compliant letter that says yes, on January 15, 2007 based on supportable data on that date I did say my opinion of value was $10,000.

Ask the client questions instead of what form they want, then it is your decision of how and what form to use to reply to with the information they are seeking.