• Welcome to AppraisersForum.com, the premier online  community for the discussion of real estate appraisal. Register a free account to be able to post and unlock additional forums and features.

1004mc

Status
Not open for further replies.
The problem in rural areas with the 1004MC is that the neighborhood is so diverse that using the search criteria method is nonsense.
exactly
they want us to support our market conditions opinions. As analysts we should be able to do that.
When were we not? You might argue the checklist boxes were "stated" and not "summarized" but it once was considered adequate by FHA / FF. Did they NOT change the forms AFTER USPAP was changed in 1994? So did the form make us competent? Did it improve the work of incompetents? How? If I ask you what two times twelve is do you need to show your work?
they do not know how to do something without a form
# of appended pages were never problem. Complaint was it was all boilerplate so replaced boilerplate narrative with boilerplate form.
 
I think many were not doing market conditions analysis.

Tell you the truth I was not really doing market conditions analysis when I was training but when prices started declining it was very obvious in the data. So we started including the most recent sales and adjusted the older sales based on paired sales with the more recent sales and listing data. But that was the extent of my market conditions analysis before. Didn't really pay attention to number of closed sales or number of active listings. Now I do.
 
Did you edited it JG. Good for you. At least spellcheck the garbage.
 
I consider him a peer in the technical-USPAP sense, too. That's just it...he's just a FNMA sounding board; I don't ever hear him go against FNMA, rather he fights me when I do. All too telling. It's one thing to "know the rules"...it's another to promote them when they are bad. Just waiting for his response.
Res-

I happen to know Rich personally and consider him a peer in the technical-USPAP sense; that is to say, someone who is competent and has the experience in the appraisal issue he is dealing with. I am not his peer as he has likely forgotten more than I know. I happen to consider him a friend, so I have a bias here (so weigh my comments with that in mind).

I believe that Rich's intent and objective in writing articles and developing courses in regards to residential mortgage appraisals and the Fannie/Freddie forms and guidelines is based on his sincere desire to give back to the appraisal community.
In every presentation of Rich's (or his partner's) that I've attended regarding Fannie, 1004mc, etc., the vast majority of the participants start the class by saying how they don't like the form, don't like UAD, don't like CU, etc., etc. (Hell, I don't like it either). Rich will sit there, listen for a bit, and say something like,
"I hear you. This presentation isn't designed to defend what they are doing and it doesn't matter whether I, you, or the guy next door likes it or doesn't like it. This presentation is designed to inform you of what the expectation is and how the form/process/guideline works. So, at the end of this presentation, you will know how to do what they are asking you to do."

That is what Rich is doing (IMO) with his articles, etc. He has gone to the powers that be, found out what they expect, and has tried to communicate that to appraisers who are still confused as to how to fill out a stupid form.
And in regards to the 1004mc, we can supplement it to our hearts content, so if we think it by itself may be misleading, I don't see how we can still think that if we supplement it and draw our conclusions (and explaining such in the report) based on our supplemental analysis.

In the four-hour Residential Cost Approach class I teach, I get death stares when I tell the participants that if you are not supplementing your site valuation estimate with hard data that cannot be replicated, you are not completing the assignment correctly per the expectations and you leave yourself open to an easy "gotcha" by a state regulatory agency. Then I demonstrate three methods that can be applied under any scenario and I emphasize "any". There is usually a component in the class that says, "that's way too much work... you are nuts... there is no data.... that isn't reliable....we don't get paid enough...[and my favorite]..no one uses the cost approach anyway."
When the dust settles, I say, "I hear you. I'm just providing you the techniques and examples of how you can complete the assignment and never worry about not meeting expectations. Whether you want to do it or not, I'll leave to you."
(and, trust me, I'm not getting rich teaching courses. I don't do it for the money, and that is fact).

Rich didn't develop the 1004mc form. But Rich knows what the expectations are by those who did develop it and Rich is simply informing appraisers what those expectations are to enable them to correctly complete the form. There is no hidden agenda here. But there is worthwhile information here.

Finally, the reason I'm jumping in and sticking my nose into this is because I just don't like to see two forumites, who I like, have spoken with, and respect, argue about something where I don't really understand what there is to argue about. :shrug:
One guy's opinion of the 1004mc reflects the vast majority of appraisers: The form sucks.
The other guy is simply providing information on how the form, as suckee as it is, is expected to be filled out.
What's the argument about?


Your gracious assessment of my motivation is both correct and appreciated. I have no axe to grind or agenda to promote. I enjoy sharing the results of my research and efforts in the hope that it helps others, who are free to use that information for what it’s worth to them, or to disregard it if they do not agree or if they do not find it useful.

However, your assessment of the situation between myself and Resguy as an argument is not really correct. An argument is a discussion in which two or more parties express disagreement. I have expressed no disagreement with Resguy in this thread. I posted (#41) a link to a blog that Dawn and I wrote because I thought some here might find it helpful. Three posts later (#44) Resguy was accusing me of having ulterior motives. And then he won’t let it go. After CANative asked him why he writes such things he responded in post #52 “Because it's true...you know it is. It's all about their private conversations behind closed doors and secret decoder rings. How many times have you seen them blast FNMA? Just saying. Smart people, but you need to take them with a bit of salt.” Then again in #61 he takes another shot at the “experts with skin in the game won’t admit” to a Fannie Mae screw up. My only response to him so far was to ask him if he was referring to me or not. So no disagreement with him at all.

While there is no disagreement, it is an aggravating situation for me and one of the reasons that I don’t post much here anymore. This fellow has a pattern of engaging in unfounded, snarky accusations and innuendo. I have asked him before in clear language to avoid bringing up my name or addressing issues to me. He does not honor that request. I shall address that with him directly in a few minutes.

Thanks again, Denis and take care.
 
I still have real heart burn with saying information on page 1 and the MC form are the same.

Page 1 should include ALL single family within the neighborhood. That would include single family detached, town homes, and condos. It should not be limited by style, size, or configuration; whereas, the MC clearly says "comparable". How can these two things be the same?
 
JG doesn't like my control statement. Well duh fannie forms, fannie guidelines, fannie rating system, fannie uad, fannie review, fannie 1004 mc. Now be a good soldier and tell me how dopey i am.
 
has a pattern of engaging in unfounded, snarky accusations and innuendo

There is a LOT of that on this board...I can see it in the general/non appraisal section, but why is it allowed in the appraisal topic section?
 
Last edited:
I still have real heart burn with saying information on page 1 and the MC form are the same.

Page 1 should include ALL single family within the neighborhood. That would include single family detached, town homes, and condos. It should not be limited by style, size, or configuration; whereas, the MC clearly says "comparable". How can these two things be the same?

Page one can include all SF use in neighborhood as far as diverse property types, price ranges, age etc. It is ONLY the three box TREND section on page one that must reflect the the conclusions from the MC analysis.
I agree in that it would be better tf page one also included a section for analysis for larger market/neighborhood in addition to the conclusions from MC data.
But then the entire URAR form could be improved in many ways including the MC form itself.
 
I am not going to read all the posts.

My concern with the MC, is that if there is not enough information to adequately flesh it out to any meaningful extent, that one does need to supplement the data and explain it. If there are too few sales, for whatever reason, to provide for supportable trends, then include additional information such as the Board of Realtors statistics, Zillow, Trulia, and other data to support your call on trends. Include year to year as well as month to month if necessary, and also maybe some good information on current contracts and median/average prices of the contracted properties compared to the sales. The number of contracted properties compared to the number of active listings does help show the tone of the market.

If the market starts a decline, we are going to see push back on not reading trends, so if you all are like me (a bear) then keep information handy and don't be shy about writing and supporting your opinion.
 
I consider him a peer in the technical-USPAP sense, too. That's just it...he's just a FNMA sounding board; I don't ever hear him go against FNMA, rather he fights me when I do. All too telling. It's one thing to "know the rules"...it's another to promote them when they are bad. Just waiting for his response.

yes, you have shown yourself to be one of them. I'm willing to be wrong, and I hope I am.

Thank you for finally giving me a direct answer.


I'm not sure what to make of your use of the term "sounding board." If that means I'm trying to clarify what Fannie Mae means in their selling guide and announcements I guess that may be the case. I suspect, however, that you are using the term derisively, as evidenced by our comments that I don’t “go against FNMA” and that I’m “one of them.”


I don’t “go against” Fannie Mae because it accomplishes nothing and panders to the crybaby mentality that I so despise. I’ve been pretty much out of the loop for the last 5 years or so, but always had better luck working constructively with the folks at Fannie Mae than bellyaching about them. I could approach them with suggestions as to areas where appraisers were having problems understanding the selling guide and changes to the guide would often follow. I look at that as trying to help appraisers.


I don’t know what you mean by “them” but I do know who and what I am. I’m a semi-retired, 67 year-old appraiser, educator and consultant. From about 1995 to 2010 I was blessed to have made my living developing and teaching CE courses for appraisers. During that time, I picked up a lot of information that I enjoy sharing, as others have told me many times that they have found the information useful. However, at times like this I have to wonder if it’s worth the bother because of folks who want to waste my time with false accusations and innuendo.


Let me be very clear. I have no axe to grind or agenda to promote and take great umbrage regarding your efforts to paint me as something I am not. I have asked you in the past to leave me be. Here is a request that I made to you on this forum over two years ago:


“Please do not bring up my name on this forum. Please do not address issues to me. I do not wish to discuss this issue or any other with you. Please leave me alone. Good day.”


You are probably a decent fellow and I’m sure your wife and kids love you. Understand this is not personal but appreciate that I do not take kindly to your comments here. So, let me make this request to you one more time with the hope that this time you will honor it.

Please do not address issues to me as I have no desire to engage in any discussion with you. Please leave an old man alone. God bless and have a good day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Find a Real Estate Appraiser - Enter Zip Code

Copyright © 2000-, AppraisersForum.com, All Rights Reserved
AppraisersForum.com is proudly hosted by the folks at
AppraiserSites.com
Back
Top