A Condition Rating Question

[GeorgetownAP]

And, therein lies the problem with the Condition and Quality rating system we are "obligated" to use .... and we wonder how Collateral Underwriting fits in to all of this! Happy Turkey day!

 

[J Grant]

Will be interested to hear how Tres Inc rated it.

These close calls are tough and I understand the position of those who rate it a C2. But the language is clear and a major component such as a roof not being new or as new would shut it out of the C2 category, even though an 11 year old roof is likely to be in good condition. Oy veh ...

 

[timd354]

Will be interested to hear how Tres Inc rated it.

These close calls are tough and I understand the position of those who rate it a C2. But the language is clear and a major component such as a roof not being new or as new would shut it out of the C2 category, even though an 11 year old roof is likely to be in good condition. Oy veh ...

This is a very close call and an argument could be made either way. I personally would have to have a look at the roof before I made a final decision on this one....if the roof is in very good condition (i.e. it is only 11 years old and s a high quality 30 or 40 year roof with little to no wear, I would be include to call it a C2, if not, I would label it a C3). As long as appropriate commentary was included in the appraisal report and any appropriate condition adjustments were made, then the appraisal should be acceptable either way.

I don't see what the big deal is about situations like this...not every property is going to fit perfect into the defined UAD condition or quality ratings...appraisers get paid to make judgments and analyze property data, so just make the call based on which rating factor fits the subject's condition best and make appropriate commentary. That really should not be all that difficult.

 

[erockinaz]

I agree with Alex and Canative, the remodel makes it a C2 and if necessary, make a roof adjustment if inferior to other C2 roofs.

 

[jay trotta]

I agree with Alex and Canative, the remodel makes it a C2 and if necessary, make a roof adjustment if inferior to other C2 roofs.

Just curious how you would determine the Roof Age of a Comp. from the street, if no language is available on the MLS ? Some States, may OR may not require a permit; then again some HO's do not believe they need a permit - so determining the comps. Roof Age is determined how ?

At one point in my appraisal time, I had a Chief Appraiser tell me he could "Eye" a comp from the street and determine the GLA.........I quickly ran back to the snowglobe library to see ifn I could find any relevant data or Special Sunglasses that I may have left out of my appraiser toolbox. I did happen to find my original Dick Tracy wristwatch, which is comparative to Todays Apple Watch, but could not find any Special Glasses.....it was depressing

 

[erockinaz]

Just curious how you would determine the Roof Age of a Comp. from the street, if no language is available on the MLS ? Some States, may OR may not require a permit; then again some HO's do not believe they need a permit - so determining the comps. Roof Age is determined how ?

At one point in my appraisal time, I had a Chief Appraiser tell me he could "Eye" a comp from the street and determine the GLA.........I quickly ran back to the snowglobe library to see ifn I could find any relevant data or Special Sunglasses that I may have left out of my appraiser toolbox. I did happen to find my original Dick Tracy wristwatch, which is comparative to Todays Apple Watch, but could not find any Special Glasses.....it was depressing

I think there is quite a difference between assessing the condition of a roof and 'eyeballing' livable area from the street. I also never said anything about determining the Roof Age, but merely the condition. In my market, when a home gets extensive remodeling, the roof usually does as well and it is noted in the MLS. It is sometimes easy to look at a comp shingle roof and see if it is newer or older. In older neighborhoods where complete remodels are common (like South Scottsdale, Arcadia, Tempe) in my market, a new roof sticks out in a exterior visual inspection, especially since three dimensional shingles are becoming more common. Of course, if not noted in MLS, and if it is not obvious in an exterior inspection, it makes it harder to determine. No special glasses or Dick watches necessary, don't be depressed

 

[J Grant]

The OP is talking about his subject...assessing C2 vs C3 of a comp is a bit more subjective than subject as we don't inspect interior and may not know as much detail about what was replaced or when.

TMD...why is it "difficult"...it's what comes after a report is submitted that has turned the field 180% from when you were in the field appraising. The change in the last 5 years accelerating in the last several years has made it much more intense. It is not hard to assign C2 or C3 and explain, but one has to be careful due to the issues that may follow. If we rate a property C2 and CU kicks it back because another appraisal or appraisals rated that property C3, it's a problem . If a reviewer questions the rating or owner/borrower agent challenges the rating in an ROV it's a problem. Appraisals are a landmine now of potential problems on nearly every line of the URAR which is what makes it "difficult". We are aware that it is fairly easy to decide a condition and explain it.

 

[timd354]

It is not hard to assign C2 or C3 and explain, but one has to be careful due to the issues that may follow. If we rate a property C2 and CU kicks it back because another appraisal or appraisals rated that property C3, it's a problem . If a reviewer questions the rating or owner/borrower agent challenges the rating in an ROV it's a problem.

It is not a problem as long as the appraiser has a reasonable basis for assigned rating and fully explains the basis of why that particular rating was assigned in the narrative comments. If anyone questions the rating, then it is very easy to simply refer them to the comments within the appraisal report. Reviewers and borrowers/agents pushing back on the appraisers conclusions or not reading the appraiser's comments is not a new problem and happened both before and after the UAD was adopted. In any case, the UAD is not going away anytime soon, so those who do mortgage lending appraisals just have to deal with it.

 

[bnmappraisal]

This is an obvious weakness in the "C" rating system. On the face, one would expect a significant difference between C2 vs. C3. In this case, the difference is minimal (IMO).

...And why I'm not a big fan of the "C" ratings. To me there's too much gray area. I'd probably lean toward C3, but I doubt I would knock a report if I was the reviewer and the appraiser called it C2

 

[CANative]

...And why I'm not a big fan of the "C" ratings. To me there's too much gray area. I'd probably lean toward C3, but I doubt I would knock a report if I was the reviewer and the appraiser called it C2

I think it's WAY better than before with the Good Average Fair Poor rating system which didn't have much definition except from the M&S cost handbook. The CU rating system (which is suspiciously like M&S) has very good definitions. C2 is like new but not new. C3 is well maintained but not all that well updated.