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About to jump in...looking for sanity check

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Mike, I've been appraising about 10 years. Guess I'm slow or too detailed but I cannot consistently average 2 appraisals per day. If I do, I can assure you that I am also averaging 16 hour work days, 7 days/week.

My personal opinion is that there is no way one can average 3 hours per appraisal. I say it's impossible. You're only kidding yourself if you think it can be done.

I gave up a $75k/year job to get into appraising. My first year I grossed $15k; my second year $21k; my third year $40k. I'm talking gross and not net. My net for the first few years was miniscule. Education, software, computers, MLS fees, phones, etc., are necessary and expensive.

I'm doing well now but I still work 7 days/week, 10+ hours/day.

If I had it to do over, would I do the same? NOT.

I do wish you well in your decision.
 
This is from a relative newby, compared to others that have responded:

You may not only lose assignments from your mentor because business slows down. I lost assignments when tax time rolled around and when a new vehicle was purchased. And we knew each other for 8 years prior.

My husband lost a 100k/yr job right after I got into the biz. I thought I would have to quit and get a real job :lol: but we got lucky and our savings helped us through. Which brings me to another point: make sure you have $$$ in the bank before starting. If we didn't have 4+months in the bank and room on credit cards, this computer I'm looking at would be in the pawn shop. The first year or 2 can be brutal--a real roller coaster. Even if the future of appraising isn't as bleak as some think, believe everybody when they tell you that the first few years are. Those that I know that say differently worked at sweatshops and any ethics and knowledge they have they learned on their own.

I love what I do, and I wouldn't tell people not to look into it. I do tell people to go in with eyes wide open and a fat parachute to land on.
 
Mike,

Let's put aside the fact that residential appraisal as we know it is currently is a state of flux, to put it mildly, and that it is threatened by the trend toward using automated valuation models (AVMs) instead of appraisals for a large percentage of SFR mortgages. And this threatened market is precisely where you are pulling your potential income estimates from. Read through this forum going back even just a couple months and see how much concern appraisers have about the AVM threat. Many appraisers will tell you that you are contemplating leaping into a dying profession.

Instead, let's talk about your income projections. 10 appraisals a week as an average means that for every week you only have five orders (and there will be several weeks like this every year), you'll have to be able to pull off 15 orders in another week. Of course, there's a difference between doing 10/week and getting paid for 10/week.

I live in SoCal and spent my first 5 years in appraising covering the 4 county area, working from north Orange County. Yes, it is indeed the land of the tract house; and yes, there is probably no easier geographic area in the world to work in from a technical standpoint. Homogenous construction, large tracts of conforming neighborhoods, high quantity and high quality data. Exactly the same features that contribute to AVM accurancy and utility. SoCal is an AVM's dream market and will possibly be the first to fall if AVMs are successful in taking the majority of the residential market from appraisers.

But let's get back to the numbers. If you're doing mostly 2055/Exterior appraisals, you may very well be able to average 2/day. However, the volume won't hold that steady during the course of any year. All it takes are a couple slow weeks here and a couple slow weeks there for your average to go down in flames. The holiday season usually slows down quite a bit for about a month. Then there is the pace necessary to put out 10/week. We're taling about driving 1,000 miles a week. You need to ask yourself how many years you can keep such a pace going. I know a lot of people, in SoCal, who burned out ofter only 2 or 3 years like that.

The other thing to remember is that our business is indeed cyclical and is now being fueled by the lowest interest rates in memory. Once these rates go up even 1%, a lot of the volume (like about 70% of it) will come to a screeching halt. Once the price appreciation trends in the area stabilize (interest rates going up could cause that) and there is no more new equity on which to base a new loan, the refi volume will stop. These are both situations that can occur at any time and will eventually happen just as sure as the sun rises in the morning.

Ask all you appraiser friends in SoCal how they were doing during the early and mid-90's. Ask them how many of their peers from the '80s are still in the business, and how many of them were unable to make a living during the slow periods. That's if any of them have even been around that long. Your fixed expenses do not decline just because you only have a couple of maybes to work on this week. It will cost you $1,000 a year in California just to maintain your E&O and your license, and that's if you don't do a single appraisal, own a single piece of equipment, subscribe to any data sources or use your car. If your license lapses for 2 years (like during a lean year), you'll have to start over from scratch.

You are not just talking about changing jobs, you are talking about a career change in which you will have to survive every year, with some years being easier than others. You also aren't talking about supporting only yourself because you also have to support a family. This raises the stakes to a do-or-die level. Ask me how I know. Even so, the money should be the least significant factor in this decision. Since the potential income is the main gist of your question to us, I'd guess that isn't the case with you.

No one on this forum is saying it flat can't be done, but I will tell you that even in SoCal, not just anyone can pull off 10/week. An average of 3 hours per assignment is not typical at all, unless they are cutting corners like not using MLS and/or not trying to verify any of their sales. Either of which will eventually cause some serious problems with the OREA. My average on a tract house with no big glitches is about 5 hours for a full URAR, and maybe 1/2 to 1 hour less for a 2055/exterior inspection only. I suppose if I were only doing SFR appraisals my times would go down a little bit, but not that much. 4 hours of driving every day is still 4 hours of driving.

Not everyone has what it takes to be successful in our profession, which is why only a fraction of the people who take the classes end up earning a permanent license. Ask around and see if I'm exagerrating. I've taught the appraisal CE courses for years, and I can tell you that there are a number of high volume appraisers out there who have only a very superficial understanding of what they're doing. Further, I know of a number of appraisers who had difficulty in getting their experience log past the OREA because they had started out working for a high volume shop wherein the typical appraisal reports were substandard in some significant way(s). I've know of trainees being directed to take more education classes, pay fines and do more hours of work; and of their mentors being required to pay fines and take discipline because an entire fee shop was in violation. Oh yeah, and the trainess still didn't get their license right away after that. In short, what I'm saying is that the fact that an appraiser is busy is not always a sign that they're any good. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. You need to look before you leap.

What I would recommend you consider is to take the courses, pay the fees and get your trainee license. Start working the appraisal gig on a part time basis for 2 months, like during the weekends. You might be able to schedule 2-3/day on your weekends and spend your evenings during the week writing them up and researching your next week's assignments. If you (and your mentor) are able to get all these appraisals you do in the first couple months past underwriting without any serious glitches, then that is probably an indication that your mentor is doing the right thing and that you have some potential for making it to journeyman level at some point in the future. It should also give you an idea of the amount of work necessary to do 10/week as an average.

If, after a 2-month period, you find that you love the work and that nothing else compares, then go for it with our blessings. Until then, you should keep your day job. Think of your family.


George Hatch
 
What you are missing is that 1 day per week has to be devoted to paperwork, CE Classes, bookkeeping, PR, etc. Second, your workload is optimistic in my market, although 2 a day are possible I suppose in the right market...but that market appears to be very competitive. Us rural appraisers do not have the competition, but it takes much more time.

I have had a sinus infection, to the doc twice this week, no "sick leave", I looked at two today. I average 300 days a year working, probably more like 320 the past 12 mo. plus many 14 hr. days. My office has cranked out about 300-350 appraisals for FOUR people in that time frame (keeping in mind that 70% of my work is commercial) And I gross about what you estimate.
 
Hello,

I don't understand where you get you number $150 per appraisal. This would be your trainee period (6+ months) after that you should have a significant jump especially if you start getting your own clients and/or moving on. It should be (300-375). Also you may do more expensive homes or commercial. That should help your income. I found that with a templete you save alot of time. The basic report to me is really about DATA entry thats where I spend the time. I was in RE agent for years. I am also pretty anlaytical. I am new trainee, but my feelings is like anything with experience it gets faster and easier. I am not familar with automation but I am a little skeptical that humans can be replaced unless there is HUGE equity or a serious undermarket.

Jen
 
Mike:

Only 4k for expenses??? That seems AWFULLY low to me. Is your supervisor paying for everything? I think my auto expenses alone are 4k!! :wink:
 
Don't leave your 70K guarantee! While I dont agree that the business is coming to end, I do see it getting tougher and tougher for us to make big bucks.

Two appraisals a day is very optimistic! I have done it and I don't care to continue to do it. It isn't like you can say OK this morning it's appraisal A and this pm it's appraisal B. doesn't work that way. To do the job well, working by yourself without administrative help, one a day is plenty.

Work the numbers (this is gross). 4.33 weeks in a month x 5 appraisals x 11.5 months. Lets assume you have completed your training and have your own business. No marketing required! You are looking at 250 appraisals a year with two weeks off for vacation. If you average $300 per appraisal your gross would be $75,000. Plan on 20% for expenses....equipment, software, dues, memberships, comp data services, vehicle, etc. Now you are down to $60,000 a year IF you are able to average $300 per assignment.

Ok, so you say I can do two per day! Where is that additional business going to come from? Now you are faced with marketing your serices to increase business. Marketing costs money but most of all it takes time. It's catch 22, Mike, you need the time to do your appraisals. So what do you do? You can hire help but then your expenses increase dramatically.

I would suggest that you probably have a job right now that you can leave at the office when you go home at night. I wish I could do that. The phone was ringing at 7:45AM this morning. Half a dozen calls today...all saying, well, where is the appraisal...I ordered it 5 days ago! Guess they worked over the three day holiday too, yeah right. Ever try and get an LO after 5 pm? Voice mail....all I ever get is voice mail. Unfortunately all of them have my office number, fax number, cell number, and home phone number. Even get calls when I am 500 miles away on a fishing trip.

Haven't played one single round of golf this year. The wife felt really good that we took 3 days off for a little road trip. It's 10pm and I am still in the office...one good thing, have a tv here so I did sorta listen to the football game. You want a life? Don't become an appraiser!

I personally do 30 to 35 assignments a month. Been doing this for 22 years. Would I do it if I had something else? Maybe! Maybe Not!

 
Mike, I've been appraising about 10 years. Guess I'm slow or too detailed but I cannot consistently average 2 appraisals per day. If I do, I can assure you that I am also averaging 16 hour work days, 7 days/week.

Echo Echo. That's me too. :lol:

I work LA and Ventura counties. 2 a day is not happening most of the time. Certainly not on 8 hr days. Sure there's the cookie cutter deals, but plenty of higher $, complications, on some jobs. One or 1 1/2 a day is about it for me, at least so far in 10 years. 8O Hell, some take a couple days or more just for 1 job. Pays a hgher fee of course. 8)

Oh, all the other advice / warnings are good and true too. 8O
 
Mike,

We could go on for days and days about the reasons you should think long and hard about being an appraiser, but my observation is that most wanna-be's won't want to believe us. They think that being a hard-working, self-motivated individual will somehow make them rise to the top quickly. Their income projections are almost always several times greater than what is realistically possible, at least for the first few years.

Most of us were in your shoes at one time, and most will agree that it is a far more complicated job than riding around measuring houses and taking pictures. What you have been exposed to so far barely scratches the surface of what you will have to learn to survive in this business.
Occasionally you'll find a first or second year appraiser who is making pretty good money, but you can bet they probably won't be showing up in this forum too much because they're working long hours, and more likely than not they will be single people who aren't under the strain of having to be the primary provider for a family.

Mike, please trust me on this...your family will suffer in a big way if you think you are going to be able to enter this profession and quickly make the kind of money you're accustomed to making right now.
Do yourself a favor and spend a little time in a busy appraisal office. There is no such thing as taking a lunch break, taking a weekend off or leaving the office at a certain time with your work day done. Instead you will be seeing frantic people, shuffling multiple stacks of files, all in different phases of completion, with a cell phone constantly ringing and the ever present deadlines that require hours of attention well after the office doors are locked.
Whatever you do, don't burn any bridges if you leave your current job to pursue this business. Most of the appraisers I know who have made incomes like yours realize early on that they made a big mistake, especially when they have kids.
Good luck in whatever you decide.

Dee Dee
 
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