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Actual Age/effective Age Vs. Condition

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IMO, effective age estimates regarding the overall quality of the maintenance of subject is used for depreciation estimates in the Cost Approach. I don't believe it belongs in the Sales Comparison approach.

That's MY opinion and I'm sticking with it unless someone else comes up with something different that makes more sense to me.
 
Originally posted by Pamela Crowley (Florida)@Jul 19 2005, 07:10 AM
That's MY opinion and I'm sticking with it unless someone else comes up with something different that makes more sense to me.
We'll discuss it over lunch at the next FREAB meeting. Should make for an interesting and lively discussion. :leeann2:

Tina? You want to get in on this?? :P
 
In another market, 28/15 could be GOOD where all the other houses in that market are not as maintained and are perhaps 28/20 or even 28/25.
That points out another often-undefined variable. Is the appraiser measuring “average” on absolute scale or a relative scale? Either would be fine, but how does the reader know? That’s why I continue to suggest that “average” or “average for the neighborhood” says more than “28/15,” when that ratio means one thing for one house than another thing for another house. At some point a key question might begin to gain traction: if two appraisers who have used effective age for 20 years can’t figure out what each other are talking about on effective age, why should anyone else?

After all, fannie doesn't want a loan that is longer than the remaining life.
Terry, are you sure about that? Is that in the guidelines?

The reason I said that is because, IMS(tupid)O, placing a mathematical number on a subjective idea may lead the reader of the report to believe some sort of science is involved.  That is also why I disagree with Austin and Bert Craytor about citing the use of regression analysis as a method used to estimate market reaction adjustments.
Greg, And why can’t there be some type of science involved. The whole appraisal process is placing a mathematical number (value) on a “market reaction.” If the process is not valid for one element of the property (condition), then it should be just as invalid for the whole property. Also, I think there is a big difference between “subjective” and hard to figure out.

I have looked at too many sales sets, from too many locations, and seen too much correlation between year built and price to think that this is something that one can summarily dismiss as an unwarranted attempt to introduce that blasphemy some call “science.”

Effective age is a function of determining depreciation and used in the cost approach. You all remember the cost approach...
Nonsense. Characteristics of property are relevant in all approaches.
I don't believe it belongs in the Sales Comparison approach.
And suppose those elements you included in your effective age calculation show that subject and the sales are different. You ignore those differences in sales comparison :blink:
 
I agree with Pam, on page 1 of the URAR Effective Age is an opinion of the total property, an opinion that reflects how recently the overall property had major maintenance versus the actual year of construction. Then in the interior section it gets broken down to the actual condition of each interior component. In the Cost Approach we are back to the condition of the total property, broken down to whether it is physical and/or functional and/or economic.

Then when we get to the Sales Comparison Grid there is the age of the subject which is many factors--bone structure of the improvements, layout, materials, etc. Then the next line is condition--overall condition of the property. What conditions of the subject would have an effect on value? The new roof or a roof that needs replacement or no updating/maintenance, etc for the last forty years or total renovation just in the last few months, etc, etc, etc.

If the effective age on the front of the form is very small compared to the actual age (70 actual age, 20 effective) than in the Sales Grid would be above average, good or excellent or renovation or remodeled, etc. (70 actual age, 50 effective might be average or average/roof or something else descriptive) (5/5 would be average) (5/1 would be good) etc, etc, etc, etc. Having an adjustment for effective age on the age line and also for condition is double dipping on the adjustments. Having both the actual age and the effective age on the age line and then only one adjustment for condition becomes redundant data that is meaningless.
 
Nonsense...hardly! Effective age is a component of the cost approach. Where did I say it didn't apply to the market data or sales comparison approach? I am beginning to believe you like to argue just to hear yourself argue. :beer:
 
"On a scale from 1 to 10 with 10 being like brand new, how would you rate the property?".

Mike: I used to ask that same question. Eventually, I discovered that male agents were decidedly more harsh in the judgement of condition than female agents :o

I still don't know what to think of that hot potato, but it did add credence to the formation of my new policy of going with comps where condition comments were memorialized in print on MLS, whenever possible. If there were an abundance of relevant sales, I would walk past the ones requiring an agent call for "condition" feedback & glom onto the ones where key words described condition.
 
This argument is another example of how the GSE guidelines and format algorithm has bastardized the appraisal process. The source of the argument is the FNMA/guidelines/formatted-form system that drives the process and how to reconcile the GSE format contradictions to CYA.
As I see it, you guys are missing the essence of the economic age life concept. In my view the concept is a method of describing the market and neighborhood trend. The effective age is just one component of the process. For example, we have a large neighborhood consisting of four room houses built by a local textile mill in the 1920’s. Similar houses were constructed at the same time on the opposite side of town. So lets look at the economic age concept to analyze these two neighborhoods and the market’s reaction to them. The first area has an average property value at $40,000. Lots contribute 15% of total property value so lots are valued at $6,000. That leaves a contributory value of the average improvement at $34,000. The estimated replacement cost is around $55,000. That indicates accrued depreciation of $21,000 or 38%. So with an actual age of 70 years that is an average of .54% depreciation per year, which indicates a total market derived total economic life of 185 years.
On the opposite side of town the average price of the houses is $25,000,which shows a rate of depreciation of $30,000 or 54%. That shows a total market derived average annual depreciation of or .78% per year, which indicates a total economic life of 128 years.
These numbers are based on neighborhood averages. What this means is neighborhood # 1 is very stable and # 2 is stable but far inferior to # 1. This answers one question, remaining economic life as expressed by the market for mortgage loan purposes is fairly safe. These houses range from original condition to being completely remodeled. So what is the effective age? I say it is a moot point but the point of reference should be market derived as how the subject fits into or is bracketed by the neighborhood ranges. The houses in original condition selling at $25,000 may have a remaining economic life, in comparison to the neighborhood averages, of say 85 years which would shows a market derived effective age of 100 years. The remodeled houses would in comparison have an effective age of around 70 years and a remaining economic life of 115 years. So the effective age range is 70 to 100 years. Once you establish the scale range you can place the subject by bracketing it. Again, this does not mean the neighborhood will last another 115 years; this is just a method of using ratios to describe the neighborhood trend. Effective age is relative to the neighborhood trend. A house could be remodeled and in poor condition. Effective age and condition are two different questions. Both come from the market. Poor condition adjustments come from the market.
Appraisers should spend their time appraising and not playing cat and mouse games with the GSE formats and its enforcement system. All the clients want to know is the estimated market value and some indication of remaining economic life based on the market derived neighborhood trend. That is the best we can offer. The alternative is some off the wall subjective theory based on the appraisers vast knowledge and experience. If there is some social, governmental, environmental, or economic force at play that would indicate otherwise the market data should indicate it unless it the change has taken places since the sales took place.
These numbers seem unrealistic which is the source of the problem. If I did an FNMA appraisal using these age life numbers some reviewer would swallow his chewing gum. So, to play the game I must rig up something based on a total economic life “guess” that will past muster. So I say the total economic life is 60 years and the effective age is 30 years. But how can I explain a 70 year old house having an effective age of 30 years? Modern houses built 30 years ago would have to have an effective age in comparison of zero years. So the appraiser is left to debate this issue because this does not sound reasonable. It is perfectly reasonable if your theory is consistent. The theory is, this is a method of making neighborhood comparisons and the numbers should be viewed in that context. They are snap shots in time that explain the trend.
 
Mike,
Effective age is a component of the cost approach. Where did I say it didn't apply to the market data or sales comparison approach?
The answer to the question is the sentence that precedes it.

Doesn’t every guide ever written on form-filling say that either actual or effective can be entered on the SALES GRID and used for adjustment? The idea that effective age is property analysis and comparison and not just a component of the cost approach is pretty common.

I am beginning to believe you like to argue just to hear yourself argue.
Consider the alternative of hearing you argue. What’s not to like? :D

This is related to the long thread on national desk reviews. The reason it takes only a few minutes to go through a URAR is that most of it doesn’t really say anything.

Austin
This argument is another example of how the GSE guidelines and format algorithm has bastardized the appraisal process.
Austin, what guideline restricts the options on how to handle this? Can you quote them?

Effective age and condition are two different questions.
As the thread shows, they can be the same, different, some of the above and some of the below; any way anyone wants to slice it. I would question the rationale (if any is used) no matter who tries to say there is one, narrow set of principles for what these terms mean or how they are to be applied. Where is any of that printed?
I just see an ill-defined way of explaining what could be one factor or a combination of factors and see that same absence of consistency in actual reports.
 
Would not a house built with materials and design that are ahead of it's time have an effective age less than actual age, when new? :P
 
Steven:

Austin, what guideline restricts the options on how to handle this? Can you quote them?

The same guideline that says you must make an adjustment when none is indicated. The same guideline that forces the appraiser to make an adjustment for anything noted in other sections of the report even if no adjustment is indicted by the data. The guideline is the enforcement of the GSE format system through its review and state enforcement process. Remember the thread the other day in which an MAI reviewer basically told the appraiser under review that the subject property had been on the market six months, had a willing buyer and seller, so either prove the sale price is wrong or change the report to reflect the contract price. The guideline is what is being enforced and not necessarily what is in print. I fail to see the distinction. Can you show me in the US Constitution where it says what the supreme court says it says?

Where is any of that printed?

I am taking advance orders for my upcoming book entitled: “Appraisal Methods of the 21st Century.” It will all be there in print. You may even find your name on the fly cover as one who I dedicate the book to. I shall never forget the little people I met on the way up or the contributions they made.
:beer:
 
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