Age/Depreciation Adjustments in Sales Comparison

[DMZwerg]

Old growth pine? How long does a pine tree live (lets not bring bristlecone pines into this)? A couple of hundred years perhaps?

Now compare trees that grew slowly over a couple hundred years before they were harvested compared to pine tree "farms" where most trees are only 30 or so years old.

Here is one deinition of old-growth ... "Old-growth forest (also termed primary forest, ancient forest, virgin forest, primeval forest, [or] frontier forest ) is a type of forest that has attained great age and so exhibits unique biological features. Old-growth forest typically contains large and old live trees, large dead trees (sometimes called "snags"), and large logs."

Compare this to redwoods where it's not uncommon to find trees that were hearty specimens of mature trees during the dark ages shortly after the Goths ransacked Rome. <snip>
I think the term "old growth" is more appropriate when discussing political issues concerning harvesting of redwoods.

Nowdays, yes, the temperate rainforests where the giant redwoods grow are the most well known of the few remaining "old growth" forests in the US, but back when my grandfather was a lumberjack they were still harvesting the old growth forests of Wisconsin and thus the age I had put on a house primarily built of old growth lumber (130 years). I know the lumber my uncle saws in his sawmill is not typically equivalent in quality to 130+ year old wood (oak, pine, etc), but I know that at times he gets in logs from the time of old growth forests (100+ year old trees back when I occasionally helped out in the sawmill 30+ years ago). :new_smile-l: I termed things very specifically and carefully in my example as I know the difference in weight, type of knots, methods of harvesting, preparation methods, wood density, and so forth. There is a reason old barn wood is being grabbed up and used in housing by the wealthy.

 

[fifteen]

Greg!! It's only as old as it's actual recorded age! Meticulous doesn't describe a 3 year old home being 5 effectively. Never are you older than you actually are. Refresher course in age/life perhaps? Poor kids that have that disease that mkes them grow old faster. A 10 yr old kid looks effectively 80. Are you going to tell him he's 80? He says, no - i'm just a 10 yr old kid. He is

A new home is built according to 60's styles, down to the shag carpeting. 1 year old. Did that house succeed in being almost 50 years old or is it really a 1 year old home with 60's appeal. Condition or style is separate from actual age. Actual age is immutable. Effective age is always less than actual age unless, it burns down. Then actual age and effective age have met.

Another way of thinking about it. A subject cannot outlive itself. By saying it's effective age is, for instance, actual age is 5 and effective age is 7. Do you know that house will be around when it's 7? It's misleading as you can't say with any certainty that it's going to exist the very next day after your inspection beyond it's actual age. You don't know it will exist tomorrow. You don't know it will exist 1 day beyond the moment of your perception of it.

Actual Age 3/Effective age 5 (or more)

Scenario 1: 5 yeas ago a novice would-be developer drives through a neighborhood of large houses with every luxury and power wasting convenience known to man. Takes him two years to plan, get permits, and get a half dozen luxury houses built. By that time the economy slows down and the market for conspicuous consumtion homes has cooled off. Three years later it is dead and everyone has gone green. They're building and buying bamboo houses with kitchen counters made out of laminated compressed landfill and powered by windmills and methane collected from a nearby pasture.

While the house was built only 3 years ago, has been meticulously cared for and is in excellent condition it's functionality and market appeal is like houses built 5 years ago.

 

[CANative]

15... You can have a building being effectively older before the building is even completed.

Mr. Zwerg... If I had known you have a personal background in forestry I probably wouldn't have popped off. But really "old growth" is just a descriptive term to differentiate original growth from secondary and tertiary forests. And it seems to me that forests of fast growing species is intended for pulp and other non construction uses... isn't it?

For some reason your use of "old growth pine" struck me as sort of humorous in a way. If you ever make it out my way I'll treat you to a ride on the "Skunk Train" between Fort Bragg on the coast and the inland city of Willits. It's an open train ride through the redwood forsts and old lumber camps. There's a bend along a creek and as you round it an old tree comes slowly into view. By this time you've seen lots of 200 foot trees that are only a hundred or so years old (second growth). This one is almost 300 feet tall and is over a thousand years old. Everyone is real quiet at this point.

 

[DMZwerg]

Mr. Zwerg... If I had known you have a personal background in forestry I probably wouldn't have popped off. But really "old growth" is just a descriptive term to differentiate original growth from secondary and tertiary forests. And it seems to me that forests of fast growing species is intended for pulp and other non construction uses... isn't it?

AFAICT most of the houses around here are studded with construction grade pine, which I believe currently comes primarily from tree-farms.
Had some relatives who harvested poplar for Fort Howard & such though.

Despite how new I am to appraising I am actually not that young and have had a lifetime of experiences as well as have done more than a bit of research. Spent my summers on a farm and occasionally would help my uncle in his sawmill (as did my brothers). Hated using gloves as they kept sticking to the wood and hands wash easy enough and toughen up fast enough anyhow. Have also done some casting (mostly pewter) and actually been published (RPG book for a local company) for which I researched MSDS and other sources on various types of wood. Bit of an armchair historian too ("The history of armchairs dates back to ..." ).

My uncle is located near the border of the area where nearly all of the forest was destroyed by "The Great Pestigo Fire" of 1971, and thus although there is some remaining old trees in the area most is actually harvested much younger than was typical 130+ years ago.

For some reason your use of "old growth pine" struck me as sort of humorous in a way. If you ever make it out my way I'll treat you to a ride on the "Skunk Train" between Fort Bragg on the coast and the inland city of Willits. It's an open train ride through the redwood forsts and old lumber camps. There's a bend along a creek and as you round it an old tree comes slowly into view. By this time you've seen lots of 200 foot trees that are only a hundred or so years old (second growth). This one is almost 300 feet tall and is over a thousand years old. Everyone is real quiet at this point.

No problem ... inspiring humor is a good thing in my book!

Been on a number of the local "lumber trains" and "old lumber camps" and seen the cuts from the largest local stumps (only 10'-12' diameter IIRC) but some day I would like to head out and see the redwoods. I was out to Seattle some years back but due to work at the time did not have the freedom to sight-see much (I know, that is a bit up the coast a state or two ).

 

[Mr Rex]

Boyd, I planted some "improved hybrid" pines on the farm Valentines Day 1995. They are now ready for thinning with the thinnings used for pulp purposes. They will reach their maximum economic value somewhere between 2025 and 2030 as lumber for construction.

FWIW, the "old growth" pines are much stronger than the fast growing stuff, and I have observed that because the rings are so close together on the old (slow) growth trees, that even after the termites eat the cellulose between the rings, there is enough structure left in the wood that it has some strength left. Not so much with the modern yellow pine since the growth rings are separated by larger areas of cellulose. Modern spruce is inferior to SYP and is like cotton candy to termites, with very little structural strength after a short visit with termites. Lesson learned? An old house with termite damage is better than a new one with termite damage. Wood strength is in the "late wood" the dark rings, and the termites prefer the "early wood" the lighter rings with a higher level of digestible cellulose.

 

[fifteen]

You and a comparable or subject cannot exist beyond it's existance. If it's in a termite infested area the life span might be 30 yrs. That doesn't make it 100 yrs old effectively. It makes it 30 before it falls apart. You cannot exist beyond your actual age - unless you believe in ghosts and have a talent for tales

Nothing can exist beyond itself in real time

 

[Mr Rex]

Once again Ed, you set the standard for Idiot. Effective age: timeless. Effective IQ: Immeasureable, the SAT starts at 400... Entertainment value to competent appraisers: Somewhere between incredulous and priceless. Potential damage to appraisers reputation if some of Ed's ideas reach main stream media: Terminal Cancer, level 4+.

 

[fifteen]

Finally - a direct reproach. cool. Too bad there's no substance just mindless opinon. Still measuring 2nd floors to the inside and cheating your clients of thousands by not doing your job correctly? By not measuring to outside dimensions ? Inquiring minds want to know

Once again Ed, you set the standard for Idiot. Effective age: timeless. Effective IQ: Immeasureable, the SAT starts at 400... Entertainment value to competent appraisers: Somewhere between incredulous and priceless. Potential damage to appraisers reputation if some of Ed's ideas reach main stream media: Terminal Cancer, level 4+.

 

[CANative]

Rex and DW... I was a fool to have taken you guys on in a timber argument.:blush:

15... I keep advising you to quit while you're behind but you never take that advice.

If a 23 year old strip mall had below average occupancy due to poor maintenance would it's effective age be: Less than actual age, the same as actual age or greater than actual age?

 

[fifteen]

Hey greg - stop talking about condition and calling it effective age. Separate things. It can never be older than it actually is