Aivre

[cashcatz]

I've been looking into all the software options. The price of new software for a sole proprietor is getting insane. Especially some of these AI offerings. I had a 10 year contract with alamode for $350 a year that just expired last year. It now renews at $500. OK I get it, there is inflation. But then Aivre comes along and is $1500 - $3500 per year! But that's not even the worse. I can't even remember the name of the new comer that was more expensive it was so ridiculous. Who can afford to operate and single person shop at these rates. Its crazy. Sorry, I digress.

To your questions. If you want an installable appraisal software where everything is maintained on your own computer, you have 2 choices. Alamode and SFREP. Everyone else is moving to the cloud. I've been using alamode, but I think I'm going to switch to SFREP. They did a complete 64 bit re-write of their software about 5 years ago and it looks way better than alamode. Even now alamode is just patching together an upgrade on their old 32 bit system. So it doesn't feel nearly as solid as SFREP.

Now for the cloud offerings. I was very excited about Aivre when I first heard about it several months ago. They were promising the best UI (user interface) and the lowest price. Well, they have come in with one of the most high prices and their UI really needs some work. My biggest complaint is that you can't just tab between fields. You'll usually get a tab between a couple of fields and then the cursor will jump outside of the form and you find yourself moving between window options instead of being within the form. To operate the software you pretty much need to keep one hand on the mouse at all times.

The cloud software that most interest me right now is Freedom Appraise. But I haven't had a chance to really use it yet to see how well it works.

I think in regard to database and files, I think most of these companyies allow you do download work files and a finished xml. But not sure about a database. But the reality is that database is worthless if you don't have access to the software than runs it. Which is only offered in the cloud.

AI is another question all together. I've played around with AI enough to know how often it hallucinates and how unreliable it is. I really don't want AI writing my reports. It might take longer, but I think I can write a more accurate report myself then letting AI write up my report and then I try to review it to catch errors. If there is one thing AI is good at, it is making a statement that sounds fully researched and true. But it is in fact all completely fabricated. So it seems like it could take more time to research and verify everything the AI put together than it would to just do it all the old manual way to begin with. My thoughts are exactly the opposite of yours. I'd like to learn the new forms inside and out before I ever let AI pick up some of the work. How will I know what the AI is doing if I don't have a deep understanding of the new layout first? I fear AI is going to create a lot of lazy appraisers who let the AI do all the work and just sign the report without doing a good review of what AI has put together.

Never forget your liability in all of this. It is you name that gets signed on the report. AI and the software companies will not carry any liability for errors created by AI. You sign the report, you carry all the responsibility for any errors.

My best thought is that we all need to proceed very cautiously. These new form changes and all the technologies are not designed for the benefit of the appraisers. They are designed for more efficient data collection and processing by their representative companies. Look at the companies behind the software. Are they trying to help the appraiser or are their interest more closely aligned to benefit an AMC or other big banking data institution.

What we really need is a modern desktop style app that is geared around efficiently entering data (like via keyboard navigation and shortcuts that you mentioned) but not laid out just like the form which the two legacy providers (SFREP and TOTAL) do, but also not turbo-tax style magic like several of the new entrants and the other legacy provider (Bradford with Nighthawk), but using best practices for data entry and an "authoring" style user interface that works well on multiple monitors/windows. And with ability to work "offline" with the fancy stuff like AI, comp and adjustment tools as optional add ons/plug ins.

 

[Flakey]

I think that's what will happen eventually, given time. That what's so infuriating about this mad rush to meet a stupid arbitrary deadline.

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the software fees, and IMO, that alone is a big reason to stop doing appraisals.
Think about it... if you do 10 appraisals/month year 'round, 120 appraisals @$20 each for software charge, that's $2400/year with no bells and whistles apparently. If you do 15/month, that's 180 appraisals @$20, that's $3600/year. Plus databases, plus $1030 license renewal fee in Ca, plus CE, plus E&O, not to mention MLS, internet, gas & auto expenses for this job that we can't actually do without having a functional vehicle. Pretty soon you are over $5000/year PLUS appraisal software charges in the $2400-$4800/year range. IMO, that's a mighty big chunk of change (+/-$10,000/yr); so you need to do 2 appraisals a month so as just not to be in the hole!?! and you haven't put a penny in your pocket yet!

Are these software companies assuming that fewer & fewer appraisers will be around to require their software, so they have decided to charge the remnants of appraisers a HIGHER fee to compensate themselves? I doubt they actually think the AMCs will increase pay to the appraiser, cuz after all, we're just the slobs doing the work, and these organizations have steadily eroded our income for more than a decade, and that erosion is unlikely to turn around.

If they are trying to justify these too-high software fees, they need to look at their own ability to create software that works. That is their responsibility & their product. If they can't do that within what the market will bear, then they should make themselves more economically useful, and not gouge their thinning appraiser clientele.

 

[John Hassler]

Not sure if leaving your workfile in the custody of the internet is considered appropriate retention

As a former regulator, I have to agree with Danny here. If you entered into the agreement in good faith with a bonafide company then your records retention requirement is likely met.

However, this doesn’t protect you if your workfile data included unique information that would aid your defense. This could be notes on who you talked to (agents, planners, etc) and what they said. It would also be non-static information like MLS where the data, including photographs, get changed either by the agent (or the MLS after a prescribed period after the sale).

 

[cashcatz]

As a former regulator, I have to agree with Danny here. If you entered into the agreement in good faith with a bonafide company then your records retention requirement is likely met.

Disagree 100%. Appraisers should store their workfiles 3x deep: one via the provider, another in their cloud sync store of choice (box.net, dropbox, Google Drive, Microsoft's thing, etc) AND once a quarter backup to a physical hard drive that is stored in a water and fireproof safe (cheap at Walmart). Never depend on a single 3rd party, and I say this as one of those 3rd parties.

 

[John Hassler]

I'm trying to wrap my head around the software fees, and IMO, that alone is a big reason to stop doing appraisals.
Think about it... if you do 10 appraisals/month year 'round, 120 appraisals @$20 each for software charge, that's $2400/year with no bells and whistles apparently. If you do 15/month, that's 180 appraisals @$20, that's $3600/year. Plus databases, plus $1030 license renewal fee in Ca, plus CE, plus E&O, not to mention MLS, internet, gas & auto expenses for this job that we can't actually do without having a functional vehicle. Pretty soon you are over $5000/year PLUS appraisal software charges in the $2400-$4800/year range. IMO, that's a mighty big chunk of change (+/-$10,000/yr); so you need to do 2 appraisals a month so as just not to be in the hole!?! and you haven't put a penny in your pocket yet!

Are these software companies assuming that fewer & fewer appraisers will be around to require their software, so they have decided to charge the remnants of appraisers a HIGHER fee to compensate themselves? I doubt they actually think the AMCs will increase pay to the appraiser, cuz after all, we're just the slobs doing the work, and these organizations have steadily eroded our income for more than a decade, and that erosion is unlikely to turn around.

If they are trying to justify these too-high software fees, they need to look at their own ability to create software that works. That is their responsibility & their product. If they can't do that within what the market will bear, then they should make themselves more economically useful, and not gouge their thinning appraiser clientele.

As costs increase, producing appraisals is shifting further away from a part time job.

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

As costs increase, producing appraisals is shifting further away from a part time job.

I don't think it is sustainable as a part time job. With a fluctuating market, like everything in real estate, it's mountains & canyons, not a nice tidy even level of work. Sometimes we're working 18 hrs/day, 7 days/week, and other times we WISH we were working a couple times a WEEK! Just not sustainable when you have to do 2-3 appraisals per month before you can pay yourself a dime for any of your working hours.

I've had more recent auto catastrophes this month, so I'm a bit sensitive about cash outflow right now.

 

[Digger88]

Regorra's 3.6 app is completely free and auto-import is included which everyone else seems to charge for. Not sure of its capabilities yet but I played around a bit and seems very easy to work with

 

[cashcatz]

Regorra's 3.6 app is completely free and auto-import is included which everyone else seems to charge for. Not sure of its capabilities yet but I played around a bit and seems very easy to work with

What do you think they will be doing with all that "free" data you provide them, especially the appraisals you bring in that don't originate from their order platform. Check out their recent VC funding news, those coastalist investors expect their payday from the bro-dude who runs that operation - I'm afraid it will be on the backs of appraisers...

 

[Vermonter]

Not sure if leaving your workfile in the custody of the internet is considered appropriate retention

Yet most appraisers have been doing exactly that with appraisal software for years now.