AMC asking for UAD 3.6 fees, what's everyone thinking?

[GWISC]

I suspect some AMC's are anticipating the 3.6 roll-out and added time needed to complete a report. They may desire to lock in the appraiser's 3.6 UAD fee now prior to our experience with them. Of course, with little to no experience on one, most of us will low-ball ourselves like we have for decades. Once the prices are locked, the AMC's will be very resistant to any price increases from appraisers who realize the 3.6 report will take much longer than just a few more hours and our previously quoted fees are not inadequate for us to justify our time. The AMC's, on the other hand, will sell their lenders on higher appraisal fees due to additional time. The AMC's increased fee will not likely be passed on to the appraiser.

Lenders, then AMC's, have always figured out a way to divide and conquer us from getting truly reasonable fees given the schooling, knowledge and time it takes to complete just one report. Without AMC's and only lenders to contend with, I suspect fees would be nearly double what they are today. Don't believe me?;
1) Lenders using AMC's have been charging customers far more than our fees for an appraisal as they need to cover the AMC fee. That means the customer would not balk at a fee that is several hundred dollars more than we are getting today.
2. I charge private customers 20-25% more than my lenders with most saying that my fee is about what they expected.

I suspect some appraisers, having been indoctrinated and beat down for for so long by clients on low fees, may even feel guilty about charging high fees or may even feel they truly are not worth a higher fee. Burn-out comes with the realization that despite your better efforts to get ahead, you aren't.

I am not afraid of getting to know the 3.6 UAD, but I will not be giving my time and talent away so an AMC can make a larger margin of profit. If my fees are not met, I can always retire. I am a year away from turning 59.5. That is the age I can start taking distributions from my self funded retirement nest egg without penalty. I thank my younger self every day for starting that retirement fund and contributing as much as could starting in my early twenties.

Sorry, I just had sugary cereal and I started ranting and could not stop.

 

[NC Appraising]

Just came in....

Hello,



As a reminder, we are seeking your input on the UAD 3.6 requirements, specifically, your readiness to support this key industry change. The survey takes less than 2 minutes to complete and helps us confirm:



• software readiness,

• training status, and

• early UAD 3.6 production experience.



Xxxxx clients are planning to begin ordering UAD 3.6 appraisals in April. Your response is greatly appreciated, as it will allow us to more effectively manage the 3.6 order assignment process.

 

[HVNY]

Since I have absolutely no idea what I'm in for I have no idea what I'm gonna charge.

 

[sputnam]

Set your fees based on time and based on risk. Looks like when you first jump into 3.6 you will probably spend about 3x (or more) the time you spend now. That will lessen as you get used to using the New URAR. Best estimate I've been able to get from appraisers who have actually completed an appraisal using the New URAR... is about 100-200% of the time you spend now.

 

[Flakey]

Set your fees based on time and based on risk.

This

 

[gorillakimchi]

Set your fees based on time and based on risk. Looks like when you first jump into 3.6 you will probably spend about 3x (or more) the time you spend now. That will lessen as you get used to using the New URAR. Best estimate I've been able to get from appraisers who have actually completed an appraisal using the New URAR... is about 100-200% of the time you spend now.

Oh no...

 

[Fernando]

Clients and Lenders don't know how the UAD 3.6 Abomination will play out so they do what they know best - Shop for lowest fee appraiser.
And the low feers are already trying to figure out how much low they can go.

 

[Overimprovement]

Who cares why they are asking? Name a fee increase and stop complaining about all things, that the AMC's are finally acknowledging that fees might go up for this product!

You of all people are defending AMC's? You don't really think their inquiry is sincere and meant to benefit indies do you??

 

[Sandra Koutsopoulos]

I think that’s a fair take. Starting with a 25% to 35% bump makes sense to me (Wish 50% lol) and then adjusting once we see how it actually plays out in production seems reasonable.

Oh. Hell. No. 25%-35% bump means you are digging your own grave deeper. Our fees are crap now; similar fees to 10-15 years ago, which means we've already lost half the value of our earnings based on inflation & cost of living increases. To put it more simply, you've voluntarily taken a 50% wage cut while inflation and cost of living are rising and value of a dollar is shrinking, and now they'll expect you to just add minimum hourly wage (if you're lucky) for the additional couple hours' inspection time, and discount entirely that with this new demon form, you'll have to know WHAT to see, note, measure, explain, photo etc, and if you forget something, additional trips, or 'warm chats' with the occupants again?! NUTS!

Not only that, but in order to snag an order now, we need to be available to throw "quotes" at robot devils deciding who will have the benefit of earning a dollar. The bidding sh*t is my most UNfavorite part of this business anymore. I'm beyond sick of it. Relying on entities to send you maybe 1 in 5 you send quotes in on is a major time waster and source of aggravation. We are not respected as "Professionals" by most AMCs; we're vendors, necessary and appreciated only as much as the janitor that mops the floor in their building. Vexing. Just got a request to do an appraisal on a 6400 sf house for $300 fee, and the AMC would get $215 to push the 'send' button to me!?! Really? Oh. Hell. No!

Most of the other posters on here realize this new PITA will take more time, require some new tools, with AMCs now saying we have to be CERTIFIED as QUALIFIED to do the dang 3.6 demon. Further, the emails I'm getting asked how much ADDITIONAL I will charge for the 3.6, not HOW MUCH I will charge for it, so they are already slicing and dicing the fee. Then I'm getting emails re: will I do the full inspection (for how much $$$) and how much would I charge if they send me somebody else's "inspection" for me to just do the valuation typing. I wouldn't even consider it. If I haven't laid eyes on the property in/out and the neighborhood, and view, and comps, there's no way I'm going to put my signature & liability on the line for that garbage.

What is your time worth per hour? Minimum wage?... is that before- or after you've paid for Licenses & CE, MLS, E&O, Databases, Software leases, gas, computers, paper, ink, internet, business phone, website, domain names, tech fees, upload fees, BS fees and advertising. What about all that studying, exams, mentoring & low pay you received while starting out as a newbie with your supervising appraiser? That's all part of the package of what we bring to the table, plus the experience of completing thousands of appraisals across all kinds of different properties, from the hovels to the massive estates. All that takes knowledge, experience, competence and expert analysis. So you think you're only worth minimum wage? The AMCs do. Do YOU!? I hope not! If we don't all stand up on our hind legs and demand professional pay, then we might as well just sling burgers at McD's and save the wear & tear on the vehicles, equipment, databases etc etc that eat our end of the fees that the AMCs give no value to whatsoever. We have business costs to do this work, but we're treated like unskilled day-labor.

Personally, I'm PAST the point of Critical Unworkability with this abusive appraisal system. If I get work at double my current fees, fine. If not, I'll spend my valuable time doing something else. I've re-entered the real estate sales biz, took my first listing, have 2 offers to work with, and then on to the next one. And the commissions aren't $300-$400; they're like $6000 to $22,000 at a whack, with probably a bunch more personal time to enjoy playing some Beethoven or Chopin on my piano and spending snuggle time with my critters.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

If fees increase significantly then they will all double down with more hybrids and waivers. Less work to go around. Why does anyone buy into the notion that doing hybrids and other less than 100% appraisals will increase the volume of work available. There isn't going to be any more work just because they claim you can save time. There is a fixed number of mortgages at any given time.