Pamela Crowley (Florida)
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2002
- Professional Status
- Retired Appraiser
- State
- Florida
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An Open Letter To Appraiser Wanna-be's
- Thread starter Restrain
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Jennie Huang
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2003
I just started with an appraisal firm and I am currently training with the appraiser's daughter. I just found out the daughter is only a trainee but has helped her father for many years. Should I stay with them and try to get as much training as possible or try to look elsewhere in this declining market? If I stay, I would be committing fraud, since the appraiser will not be going with me to inspect the property, right? I am not sure what I should do, so any advice would be helpful. Thank you.
Dee Dee
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
Jennie,
If the supervisory appraiser is signing that he personally inspected the properties when you know that he did not, then you need to discuss this with he and his daughter before you hit the door.
In the case of a typical appraisal, the correct way that the appraisal should be signed is with you as the inspecting appraiser, then with your supervisor also signing that he reviewed your work but with the box next to his signature checked that he 'did not' inspect the property. If the loan underwriters have any issues that the supervisory appraiser did not personally inspect the property (which is not uncommon), then he (the supervisor) needs to go out and inspect the property himself so that he can change the report to state that he did inspect.
If you are not signing the report you should be sure that your level of participation in the appraisal is addressed somewhere in the report (example: JH assisted in the physical inspection, comparable sale research and selection, and typing of report), or you will not be able to count the time you put into the report on your log hours. Any state board who is reviewing your log when it comes time that you want to change your license level can randomly choose any report from that log for review. If you are not mentioned anywhere in the reports that they select, then it's going to look very questionable that you did anything at all.
If any report that you have participated in should come into question for any reason, you will be considered to be a witness to fraudulent behavior if the supervisor has not inspected the property but has signed otherwise. Any thorough state appraisal board inspector or attorney will be asking you if this was just a one-time occurance or if it was an ongoing practice. You won't want to lie at this point, because it's too easy for them to do random interviews of homeowners from other reports who can identify what appraisers inspected their homes. At the very least, you will have egg on your face for all to see, at the very worst you could be considered a willing accomplice to fraudulent behavior.
Make sure that you have a final copy of every single appraisal that you participate in, exactly as it is sent to the lender. As long as the supervisor states that he did not inspect then you have done no wrong. If he signs that he has inspected when you know he hasn't, know that you could someday be put under a microscope.
If the supervisory appraiser is signing that he personally inspected the properties when you know that he did not, then you need to discuss this with he and his daughter before you hit the door.
In the case of a typical appraisal, the correct way that the appraisal should be signed is with you as the inspecting appraiser, then with your supervisor also signing that he reviewed your work but with the box next to his signature checked that he 'did not' inspect the property. If the loan underwriters have any issues that the supervisory appraiser did not personally inspect the property (which is not uncommon), then he (the supervisor) needs to go out and inspect the property himself so that he can change the report to state that he did inspect.
If you are not signing the report you should be sure that your level of participation in the appraisal is addressed somewhere in the report (example: JH assisted in the physical inspection, comparable sale research and selection, and typing of report), or you will not be able to count the time you put into the report on your log hours. Any state board who is reviewing your log when it comes time that you want to change your license level can randomly choose any report from that log for review. If you are not mentioned anywhere in the reports that they select, then it's going to look very questionable that you did anything at all.
If any report that you have participated in should come into question for any reason, you will be considered to be a witness to fraudulent behavior if the supervisor has not inspected the property but has signed otherwise. Any thorough state appraisal board inspector or attorney will be asking you if this was just a one-time occurance or if it was an ongoing practice. You won't want to lie at this point, because it's too easy for them to do random interviews of homeowners from other reports who can identify what appraisers inspected their homes. At the very least, you will have egg on your face for all to see, at the very worst you could be considered a willing accomplice to fraudulent behavior.
Make sure that you have a final copy of every single appraisal that you participate in, exactly as it is sent to the lender. As long as the supervisor states that he did not inspect then you have done no wrong. If he signs that he has inspected when you know he hasn't, know that you could someday be put under a microscope.
Stone
Elite Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Wisconsin
Dee Dee, et al - perhaps (probably?) this is a naive question, but whenever trainng ethics are discussed in this forum, the subject of supervisors signing "did inspect" when they did not is brought up. How often does this occur? When I was going through training, my mentor went with me for quite awhile and thus was able to sign "did inspect." After a period of time that he felt was acceptable, he slowly stopped coming on inspections based on the type of property. However, when he did not come with, he did not sign that he inspected. The loan officers we were working with were fine with him signing "did not inspect." So, is it a state by state thing, or what is the reason for people to sign did inspect when they didn't.
BTW - before anyone jumps to any conclusions about how long he came to inspections with me
, I had way more hours than needed to take get licensed, as well as about two years appraising, but held off for about an extra six months due to how the licensing cycle fell. I had taken twice as much education as necessary, along with a bunch of CE and did not feel the need to get licensed and have to take another full set of continuing ed over the last six months of the year.
Just curious how big a problem this is, and why it is such a problem. I do not know anyone who works for a large company, and perhaps that is why I do not understand.
BTW - before anyone jumps to any conclusions about how long he came to inspections with me
, I had way more hours than needed to take get licensed, as well as about two years appraising, but held off for about an extra six months due to how the licensing cycle fell. I had taken twice as much education as necessary, along with a bunch of CE and did not feel the need to get licensed and have to take another full set of continuing ed over the last six months of the year. Just curious how big a problem this is, and why it is such a problem. I do not know anyone who works for a large company, and perhaps that is why I do not understand.
Dee Dee
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- Colorado
Roger,
I'd like to apologize as it appears as if my posts were hijacking from the excellent points that you made for wannabe's, which was certainly not my intent. It's obvious that your primary concern is to shed some light for those who might be considering this field without knowledge of it's current state, prior to their making any sizable commitments.
I'm just as concerned, if not moreso, for those trainees who are just getting started in the field, or for those wannabe's who choose to fight the odds of the downturn in today's mortgage market. Far too many of the 'supervisors' <_< who are still hiring trainees are corrupt, and those newbies and wannabes who choose to proceed need to clearly understand that it's not worth the risk if the mentor they work for is unethical.
Finding a mentor at all is only the first part of the battle (albeit a huge one for most, espeically now), but finding one that won't take advantage of them, possibly setting them up for a dirt bath, will be just as difficult of a challenge. Unethical supervisors will hire the most desperate and ignorant, because those trainees will be the most cooperative and least likely to snitch if they are negligent or committing fraud.
Pleading ignorance will not be an adequate defense, so those who choose to proceed need to arm themselves with a clear understanding and adherence to appraisal guidelines, USPAP and state laws to protect themselves.
I'd like to apologize as it appears as if my posts were hijacking from the excellent points that you made for wannabe's, which was certainly not my intent. It's obvious that your primary concern is to shed some light for those who might be considering this field without knowledge of it's current state, prior to their making any sizable commitments.
I'm just as concerned, if not moreso, for those trainees who are just getting started in the field, or for those wannabe's who choose to fight the odds of the downturn in today's mortgage market. Far too many of the 'supervisors' <_< who are still hiring trainees are corrupt, and those newbies and wannabes who choose to proceed need to clearly understand that it's not worth the risk if the mentor they work for is unethical.
Finding a mentor at all is only the first part of the battle (albeit a huge one for most, espeically now), but finding one that won't take advantage of them, possibly setting them up for a dirt bath, will be just as difficult of a challenge. Unethical supervisors will hire the most desperate and ignorant, because those trainees will be the most cooperative and least likely to snitch if they are negligent or committing fraud.
Pleading ignorance will not be an adequate defense, so those who choose to proceed need to arm themselves with a clear understanding and adherence to appraisal guidelines, USPAP and state laws to protect themselves.
Kim White
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
Sure wish my Instructor's would have gone into more detail about the potentials of future income, etc.
Since I am one of those sending the many resumes you are receiving it is mutually frustrating. The fact that it took so long for OREA just to get me a test day, etc. doesn't bode very well either.
And, unfortunately, I, like many others who came out of the Information Technology field are experiencing the result of a truly discouraging employment market (all the way around.) After 23 years of hard work to become a Manager in my former occupation, I can't even find a job opening that 3,000 other IT folks haven't sent in resumes for.
While I truly appreciate your honesty, my point is....what do we have to lose by pursuing Appraisal? It doesn't get much worse then being a single parent with mouths to feed and no job prospects. And, if your going to work for minimum wage in the interim you might as well hang on unemployment (and we wonder why people get stuck in that rut.)
The shear magnitude of the umeployment numbers is enough to make you give up. I have a real estate sales license so I understand the market shift. But, I must tell you, I have also seen Realtors who never take "no" for an answer and are successful despite the reality of any market.
From where I stand, fighting for a job in Appraisal isn't much different then fighting for a job in IT. Call me a fool, but I am pinning my aspirations on just making ends meet as an Appraiser so that I can at least get up every morning, no matter how bad the world gets, and love going to my job!
Since I am one of those sending the many resumes you are receiving it is mutually frustrating. The fact that it took so long for OREA just to get me a test day, etc. doesn't bode very well either.
And, unfortunately, I, like many others who came out of the Information Technology field are experiencing the result of a truly discouraging employment market (all the way around.) After 23 years of hard work to become a Manager in my former occupation, I can't even find a job opening that 3,000 other IT folks haven't sent in resumes for.
While I truly appreciate your honesty, my point is....what do we have to lose by pursuing Appraisal? It doesn't get much worse then being a single parent with mouths to feed and no job prospects. And, if your going to work for minimum wage in the interim you might as well hang on unemployment (and we wonder why people get stuck in that rut.)
The shear magnitude of the umeployment numbers is enough to make you give up. I have a real estate sales license so I understand the market shift. But, I must tell you, I have also seen Realtors who never take "no" for an answer and are successful despite the reality of any market.
From where I stand, fighting for a job in Appraisal isn't much different then fighting for a job in IT. Call me a fool, but I am pinning my aspirations on just making ends meet as an Appraiser so that I can at least get up every morning, no matter how bad the world gets, and love going to my job!
Kate
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified Residential Appraiser
- State
- New Hampshire
Yup.
The enjoyment factor is what it is all about. You figure most people have to work for most of thier life. You better enjoy what you do. I don't need big bucks either. I want to pay my bills and be able to eat out every once and awhile. I don't need all the extras.
I am enjoying what I'm doing now. Even though I get frustrated when I don't get something. The fulfillment once I figure it out is worth it. I love this bus.
The enjoyment factor is what it is all about. You figure most people have to work for most of thier life. You better enjoy what you do. I don't need big bucks either. I want to pay my bills and be able to eat out every once and awhile. I don't need all the extras.
I am enjoying what I'm doing now. Even though I get frustrated when I don't get something. The fulfillment once I figure it out is worth it. I love this bus.
Restrain
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2002
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- Florida
Kim:
If you REALLY, REALLY want to do this, then go for it. The thing is, people considering this profession need to realize that it's not a quick-fix for no job. It takes a long time vs. other fields, and unlike other professions, it takes an apprenticeship. Also, when it's all said and done, you can make a reasonable living, but you'll never get rich.
I know plumbers and AC repairmen that make more than I do, as well as carpenters, drywall hangers, etc.
I just want the people to know what I as an independent appraisal company am seeing in the market and need for appraisers.
Roger
If you REALLY, REALLY want to do this, then go for it. The thing is, people considering this profession need to realize that it's not a quick-fix for no job. It takes a long time vs. other fields, and unlike other professions, it takes an apprenticeship. Also, when it's all said and done, you can make a reasonable living, but you'll never get rich.
I know plumbers and AC repairmen that make more than I do, as well as carpenters, drywall hangers, etc.
I just want the people to know what I as an independent appraisal company am seeing in the market and need for appraisers.
Roger
Kim White
Freshman Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2003
- Professional Status
- Certified General Appraiser
- State
- California
Roger,
The amount of time it takes doesn't discourage me. There wasn't a trainee process in I.T. when I started, but there can be a huge learning curve depending on what area your in. It took me at least 10 years to start climbing the corporate ladder and at least that long to have an idea of what I was doing. So, if appraisal means starting over from the bottom I think it's okay...it's really a mental state of mind; keeping your goals in perspective. Like you implied...can't expect to get rich overnight.
You've mentioned the low pay a few times...do you think that is specific to your neck of the woods? Because I can tell you I have personally seen what the Appraisers out here in California are pulling down. If I just make half of what they have been making I'll be one step up from my last occupation. Maybe you should consider moving out West?!
Kim
The amount of time it takes doesn't discourage me. There wasn't a trainee process in I.T. when I started, but there can be a huge learning curve depending on what area your in. It took me at least 10 years to start climbing the corporate ladder and at least that long to have an idea of what I was doing. So, if appraisal means starting over from the bottom I think it's okay...it's really a mental state of mind; keeping your goals in perspective. Like you implied...can't expect to get rich overnight.
You've mentioned the low pay a few times...do you think that is specific to your neck of the woods? Because I can tell you I have personally seen what the Appraisers out here in California are pulling down. If I just make half of what they have been making I'll be one step up from my last occupation. Maybe you should consider moving out West?!
Kim
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