Any Luck Getting Realtors To "show Their Work" When Computing GLA?

[jay trotta]

In our area assessor records change or remain the sale every few years; when data was transferred by hand, there would be a few discrepancy's. Along came computer technology and similar discrepancy's were noted on occasion, then there were the years when the assessor decided to include Fin. Attic area's, when they were not and then FBA, when they were not (some, not all). The reasoning, No Permits were being pulled as required.
Gather all the data, use what you see on site (subject) as your Bible and then think about whether the comparable data you collect is as accurate as what you noted during your research on the subject.
Some years back in one of my conversations with a chief appraiser, he stated he could tell from the street, how large the dwelling was; needless to say I was speechless.

Good Luck in your neighborhood

 

[J Grant]

However good or bad, inaccurate or accurate any public records are, the RE agent has plenty of time to measure, or have a house measured for them, they typically do neither (for reasons discussed).

Even if they don't measure, they could visually and on inspecting the property ferret out differences between public records sf dwelling living area and spaces such as attics, garages etc. If they don't, it's on them. But we can't change what they do or don't do. When a RE agent fills out an MLS listing, the RE agent, or their assistant, fills it out. But even if an office used auto populating, the agent can override it and change things., so using the rationale of "auto populating" does not excuse agents The reality is hey are not required to measure, or accurately represent dwelling sf as we are. They can mis state/ or inflate sf by saying living area is not verified / source is public records .

No matter, that is part of our job to ferret out, to the degree possible, not just in our subject but in the comps what is permitted/original /under air and heat living area vs finished attics , converted garages or porches etc. And then we have to explain in our reports any variance from our sf and what an MLS shows or what public records shows.

The OP asked about if RE agents can be persuaded to change. Imo they can't, unless and until their brokers or regulations demand it.

If their sf was inflated of a property, and our opinion of market value is below SC price, we can explain that the property was represented as having 2000 sf and buyer paid a commensurate price, however measurements and inspection the the subject is actually 1600 sf with a 400 sf garage.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

I could never figure out when agents enter such glaringly wrong sf if the agent is ignorant, or trying to inflate the sf of the dwelling.

I've identified one local office where 40% of listings deviate from courthouse records and every single one was higher SF. It is deliberate. Other offices reported Assessor SF unerringly which is my preference ditto on acreage tracts, even though the occasional error can happen. Recently noted legal description of 37.4 acres while assessor listed 41 acres which apparently took in the state highway ROW.

 

[Eli]

I am amazed to what degree real estate agents will go "sometimes" with a personal phone call and tell me as an appraiser information that is totally contradictory to the same MLS sheet that they are responsible for inputting to the MLS.

I don't ever get confrontational on the phone and they are almost always very nonchalant in the information they are telling me being very contradicting to the MLS sheet they are responsible for (sellers agent). Occasionally I will get one who will say I will get that changed.

Sometimes I send a correction message to the board of realtors when I have time and feel like it needs to be corrected.

Just understand their primary goals are to list and sell property and keep that in mind. They have a party they represent and are legally biased in favor of that party.

Now our MLS lists some data by appraisers because appraisers submit the data and you see the basic data side by side with assessor and MLS data. Only on properties where the appraiser has submitted things like GLA, condition, etc. The date each source was updated is included too.

 

[J Grant]

Thanks T...I tend to agree, most of it is deliberate, though there may be some agents who are lazy and have an assistant fill out the MLS listing and the assistant is ignorant and just takes gross larger sf from public records.

Whichever it is, it's appalling and frustrating. Then again, as I said earlier, it's a form of job security for us. It also explains why much as they love to say AVM's can replace appraisals as long as MLS data is so flawed, AVM's or similar auto software programs that rely in all or part on MLS without vetting the data will have too great a margin of error to be as reliable as an appraisal.

The other big flaw in MLS records which is also a form of job security for us but that drives me crazy, is that the agents list all the positives, but ignore the negatives. They'll comment on how upgraded a property is, but fail to mention it backs up to the noisy Highway.

Then again, appraisers such as the OP have to realize we are guests using the MLS system for our purposes. MLS exists primarily for agents to list their properties in order that other agents know about it and can show and sell them.

 

[Eli]

Another thing here now is that real estate agents of my local board of realtors are required to obtain and report the name of the real estate appraiser if it is a transfer transaction.

I don't know if that is nationwide, local only or whatever. The MLS then lists a "code" that identifies the appraiser to members. With a list of the codes, it is easy for appraisers to interact and verify info.

 

[J Grant]

I am amazed to what degree real estate agents will go "sometimes" with a personal phone call and tell me as an appraiser information that is totally contradictory to the same MLS sheet that they are responsible for inputting to the MLS.

I sat down recently with an agent at a subject property because they wanted to explain the sale comps, most of them her own listings. ( I always do my own research but accept and consider what agent wants to give me). . As we sat there, going through each listing, they said total opposite to what was on the listing. A listing that was upgraded, they explained to me was"really" not upgraded and needed work. But I had already looked that listing up and saw the interior photos of the upgrades/good condition and told her that. She replied "Now I am representing this listing to you in the interest of this deal.". I started laughing, at which point she started laughing. I said something like "really", and she said "I'm just doing my job". Which she was, doing her job in interests of getting a deal done for the seller. She knew what she was doing and I knew what she was doing. It was all friendly, I did not get confrontational with her or try to "educate" her. But I did do my job on appraisal and called that comp what it was, upgraded. (she was hoping I'd buy her explanation and adjust it up for being inferior)

What troubles me is not so much the agents actions since we can't control that, but what is troubling is the blind faith some appraisers put in RE agent information, or like the OP, a mis understand of RE agent responsibilities/role. I used to be a RE agent and sold for over 5 years, so I speak form personal experience,

From my personal experience, RE agents are not the devil plotting to mislead people and get folks to over pay. They actually believe they are doing good by driving prices up. They believe their own exaggerations, a kind of alternate reality. Which is what makes them so convincing as sales people, they truly believe ( because they convince themselves), that the buyer is "getting a great deal" when in reality the buyer is over paying. They believe the house is larger than it is . They believe the busy highway in back doesn't matter.

I had an agent, very experienced, supposed market expert, on a subject house backing a busy highway, noisy as heck. It was across the street from waterfront homes which backed water and not affected by highway noise. My opinion of value was lower than SC price. The agent submitted an ROV using the mainly the higher priced waterfront homes, which they had provided buyer with to show them what a "great deal" they were getting.

 

[Eli]

I am amazed to what degree real estate agents will go "sometimes" with a personal phone call and tell me as an appraiser information that is totally contradictory to the same MLS sheet that they are responsible for inputting to the MLS.

I sat down recently with an agent at a subject property because they wanted to explain the sale comps, most of them her own listings. ( I always do my own research but accept and consider what agent wants to give me). . As we sat there, going through each listing, they said total opposite to what was on the listing. A listing that was upgraded, they explained to me was"really" not upgraded and needed work. But I had already looked that listing up and saw the interior photos of the upgrades/good condition and told her that. She replied "Now I am representing this listing to you in the interest of this deal.". I started laughing, at which point she started laughing. I said something like "really", and she said "I'm just doing my job". Which she was, doing her job in interests of getting a deal done for the seller. She knew what she was doing and I knew what she was doing. It was all friendly, I did not get confrontational with her or try to "educate" her. But I did do my job on appraisal and called that comp what it was, upgraded. (she was hoping I'd buy her explanation and adjust it up for being inferior)

What troubles me is not so much the agents actions since we can't control that, but what is troubling is the blind faith some appraisers put in RE agent information, or like the OP, a mis understand of RE agent responsibilities/role. I used to be a RE agent and sold for over 5 years, so I speak form personal experience,

From my personal experience, RE agents are not the devil plotting to mislead people and get folks to over pay. They actually believe they are doing good by driving prices up. They believe their own exaggerations, a kind of alternate reality. Which is what makes them so convincing as sales people, they truly believe ( because they convince themselves), that the buyer is "getting a great deal" when in reality the buyer is over paying. They believe the house is larger than it is . They believe the busy highway in back doesn't matter.

I had an agent, very experienced, supposed market expert, on a subject house backing a busy highway, noisy as heck. It was across the street from waterfront homes which backed water and not affected by highway noise. My opinion of value was lower than SC price. The agent submitted an ROV using the mainly the higher priced waterfront homes, which they had provided buyer with to show them what a "great deal" they were getting.

It depends on which party they are representing.

On a different note, Florida is a different world anyway, lol:

 

[J Grant]

I don't think FL is that different. I sold RE in New York and then in FL when I moved there and the agent side was much the same. A good friend of mine who also was a RE agent in NY and then o in California after she moved there, also became an appraiser . As friends but also as appraisers we talk weekly. Her experiences with RE agent nonsense and exaggeration about properties/listings in California mirror my experience in FL.

There are exceptions and I do encounter some very well informed and fact conscious RE agents but they are a minority.

Commercial sales might differ in the listings are less in volume, and the buyer expectation more business based on cash flow and income, less opportunity for BS about how lovely the view is etc.

Another favorite of mine, RE agents saying a condo unit has "ocean views", when it has a sliver of view from the corner of balcony. Another example how unless it changes, their antics about representing properties and fudging facts on MLS listings are a form of job security for us.

 

[Eli]

I don't think FL is that different. I sold RE in New York and then in FL when I moved there and the agent side was much the same. A good friend of mine who also was a RE agent in NY" and then sold RE o in California after she moved there, also became an appraiser . We talk weekly, and her tales as an appraiser about the RE agent nonsense and exaggeration about properties/listings in California mirror my experience in FL. There are exceptions and I have do encounter a number of extremely well informed and fact conscious RE agents but they are a minority.

Commercial sales might differ in the listings are less in volume, and the buyer expectation more business based on cash flow and income, less opportunity for BS about how lovely the view is etc.

Another favorite of mine, RE agents saying a condo unit has "ocean views", when it has a sliver of view from the corner of balcony. Another example how unless it changes, their antics about representing properties and fudging facts on MLS listings are a form of job security for us.

I was trying to make you laugh. Goofy.