Appraisals For Probate

[Walter Kirk]

Interestingly I have a similar situation right now. I did appraisals on several parcels for estate taxation., After I submitted my reports to the accountant I was informed that the heirs had sales agreements on several of the parcels at prices higher than my appraisal (mostly $5,000 higher than my estimate of value but one property is being sold for $40,000 more than my appraised value). Of course when I asked if there were any listings or agreements I was told no.

The accountant told me that the heirs would rather pay a little estate tax now and establish a higher basis and avoid tax on a future gains. I am now revising my appraisals and considereing the sales agreements.

 

[DTB]

Otis,

No HIDDEN SALES????? You gotta be kidding if you think all sales are recorded. Recording is the prudent thing to do of course, but certainly not required. The recording only serve constructive notice of your interest in a property.

I know of several sales that you would never find, that's the way the parties set it up. Not real difficult to do.

 

[Otis Key]

I know Mike but you have got to be one of the most stupid people in the world to not record your ownership in a property after you've paid money for it. Otherwise, you could just give that money to me for my Good Looks and not have to worry about anything. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Roger R. Patzold]

English is my first and only language but. I did not properly use it.

I was not clear on what I meant by a hidden sale.

The sales described by Walter Kirk are what I was attempting to describe.

A sale is not public until one of the parties makes it public.

Of course it would probably be a fraud and conspiracy but a long enough time lapse could go far to keeping the courts, etc from finding out.

A property sold with a private agreement between two silent parties could be made public after an appropriate time period and who would be the wiser if neither of the silent parties disclosed it. If the cash flow was also hidden how could the public ever find out.

The cash flow could be used to pay a debt between the parties with private agreements that would stand up in court but neither party wanted made public.

The subject property would have to have a high value to make it tempting.

There are all kinds of games and scam artist out there.

The best advise to the appraiser is that presented by several on the forum. Do your job as an appraiser, dot all the i's and cross all the t's. Then move on.

 

[Otis Key]

Roger - almost all negotiations are private or "hidden". However, as I stated, you've got to be a big winner in the "Idiot's world record book" to not at least record your ownership. Like I said, otherwise, just send all money to me in cash, nonsequential bills, and I'll be more than happy to take care of it.

We're appraisers. What we do is not carved in stone. We form an opinion o fo value based upon data, facts and analysis. If someone else wants to pay more than what we estimated it to be, then so be it.

I would equate it to the clown that calls you up to appraise his home and tells you it's for tax purposes. You appraise it and he suddenly goes nuts because now it turns out that he has negotiated a sale and it's for $10,000 more than you estimated it to be. Hidden sale - it's not a sale till it's closed - that's a negotiated contract.

 

[DTB]

Otis,

The people that I know have done this multiple times and are a lot richer than you or I. So I guess it's dumb like a fox.

Apparently nobody is running through the recorder's office and cross referencing a property and unrecorded deeds.

I believe the only person who would be able to transfer another "bogus" deed would be the original seller. How many times do you know of a seller that has anything on his mind but walking/running from closing with his $$$$$$$$$?

Sometimes when we here of thingds being done differently than our "normal" course of business, we are quick to pooh-pooh the idea. I'm as guilty of this as the next guy.

 

[Larry Lyke]

Roger --

A crime scenario: [Forget all expenses to settle this case.]

• The $300,000 house-property is inflated to $500,000.

• The liquid assets are $500,000.

• The sister wants mom and dad's house. The playboy brother wants the cash.

• On paper they look same!

L- in MN