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Appraisals lower than agreed price

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Life and real estate is more complicated than the explanation on the side of the cereal box.
Its hard to respond to a question about a $2000 difference and tie it to AMCs, appraisal independence,
and why you don't always get what you want.

I imagine if you ask some of the more experienced investors in your group "why" they
will give you a answer that makes sense to investors. My explanation would probably
be, "Its hard to get a loan now a days at these rates."
 
As an investor I'm surprised you can't comprehend the concept of price and value being different entities in the world of real estate. Give it some thought, it make make more sense afterwords.
 
The appraiser does not define the market, the market defines the appraisal. The contract price of a home IS market data. It reflects the definition of value sought in the report. As long as it is arms-length etc, the contract price answers the very question being posed of the appraiser in the URAR. As such, the contract price is a strong indicator of market value.

If someone is paying more for a home than the last few sales, that could mean the market is going up. Are you telling me that the market is not allowed to go up or down, because people should only be allowed to buy homes at the same price as the recent historical sales? Or that the market should only go up and down based on cash sales, but if you want financing with an appraisal, you had better buy your home at the same price as the recent comps?

Yes there are times when the price is way off, that is when you have unknowledgeable participants. But, if the price can be reasonably bracketed by comparable sales, that should typically be the value by its very definition. That's because the appraisal process is not perfect sorry, you did not see the interior of the comps, and you were not privy to the negotiations. Like someone else said, you had better have some super convincing tightly reconciled sales data if you are going to claim otherwise. Some appraisers need to get off their high horses.
 
The appraiser does not define the market, the market defines the appraisal.
The client defines the type of market value he wants you do find.


The contract price of a home IS market data.
yes

It reflects the definition of value sought in the report. As long as it is arms-length etc, the contract price answers the very question being posed of the appraiser in the URAR.
Maybe, maybe not. For a 1004: For example: If it is a REO sale, it does not fit the definition of value sought in the report, as it has undue stimulus. If concessions are affecting the sale, it does not fit the definition of value sought in the report. They can still be used for comps, but if these variances affect value, then they need to be adjusted so that they do reflect MV as defined.


As such, the contract price is a strong indicator of market value.
Maybe, maybe not. You better make sure your stars are lined up.



If someone is paying more for a home than the last few sales, that could mean the market is going up.
Maybe, maybe not. One sale does not a market make. If it does, then why bother with an appraisal?


Like someone else said, you had better have some super convincing tightly reconciled sales data if you are going to claim otherwise. Some appraisers need to get off their high horses.

Agreed :beer:

:icon_mrgreen:
 
I would also do some looking at this minor difference.........unless there were sales concessions involved.
 
If I had to guess what happened in your example I would guess that the appraiser (low bid) who was sent by the AMC to probably was required to follow guidelines for the choice of comparable sales. These guidelines often require the use of comparables which an appraiser would not normally choose as well as forbid the use of comparables which are much better.
ie force the appraiser to use a forclosure sale that occured a few weeks before but not allow the use of the house next door which sold 366 days ago.

As an investor you might want to consider a couple of stratigies for the future. The firct would be to hire an appraiser to prepare a report on your property before you put it on the market. The second is to pay a mortgage company for a sponsored appraisal which the lender will agree to use if the buyer applies for a loan with them. This tactic will cost you a few hundred dollars (which you may be able to recover at settlement) but it will eliminate last minute price reductions.

If you are investing in the Philadelphia area it's likely that an AMC appraiser may not understand values in your specific neighborhood.
 
AN APPRAISAL IS AN OPINION OF MARKET VALUE. That's it and that's all. It's the lenders fault that they allow deals to die if the appraisal doesn't jive with the contract price exactly. $2000 difference in the contract price and the appraisal---wow, would not that property still be adequate collateral for the loan even if the appraisers opinion of value is less than the contract price. It's stupid if you ask me.

The example that "investor" gives should not cast a poor light upon the appraisal profession but rather a light upon the lending enviroment. One $350+/- service provided by an unbiased person providing an opinion of value fouls up a $45,000 loan, real estate commissions, interest to the lender etc.......
 
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The appraiser does not define the market, the market defines the appraisal. The contract price of a home IS market data.

The above is fine.

It reflects the definition of value sought in the report. As long as it is arms-length etc, the contract price answers the very question being posed of the appraiser in the URAR. As such, the contract price is a strong indicator of market value.

The above is so problematic I don't even know where to start. Lenders may as well have realtors do the appraisal if this is true.

If someone is paying more for a home than the last few sales, that could mean the market is going up.

Maybe, maybe not. If the market is going up, then you should be able to bracket the price with a similar comp and bracket it easily, since when a market goes up, a number of people are willing to pay more than the last few sales, not just one person (such as your buyer). When a market goes up, then days on market should be shorter, fewer REO's present, pending contracts on higher price properties listed, multiple offers on homes, etc. Are these factors present that indicate a rising market, or only this one buyer is paying more than previous sales?

Are you telling me that the market is not allowed to go up or down, because people should only be allowed to buy homes at the same price as the recent historical sales?

Nobody is saying the market is not "allowed" to go up or down. But when markets start rising, there is are driving forces behind it, such as the economy is improving, an influx of buyers enter an area, credit is avail from lenders, employment is up, etc. These are the factors that drive a market up, and if they are not present, why is the market rising ?

Or that the market should only go up and down based on cash sales, but if you want financing with an appraisal, you had better buy your home at the same price as the recent comps?

Of course a buyer can finance a home, and pay more. But, if the last sales are lower, and the contract price is not supported and there is a $5,000 shortfall, a QUALIFIED buyer should have $5000 more cash avail to put down to make up the difference of the higher price, if the appraised value is lower. This is what defines rising markets.

In a rising market, based on a stronger economy , rising employment, and other positive factors, these positive economic trends means there are more qualified buyers who fianance, but are capable of putting a little more cash down.

THIS is what makes market rise, more qualified buyers available . (The last market rise was artificial, as it was comprised mainly of unqualified buyers who had no or little cash and were buying often with 100% financing , thus they could not hold the properties when times got bad , thus the collapse)

Yes there are times when the price is way off, that is when you have unknowledgeable participants. But, if the price can be reasonably bracketed by comparable sales, that should typically be the value by its very definition. That's because the appraisal process is not perfect sorry, you did not see the interior of the comps, and you were not privy to the negotiations. Like someone else said, you had better have some super convincing tightly reconciled sales data if you are going to claim otherwise. Some appraisers need to get off their high horses.

Can't address the last paragraph, not enough hours in the day.
 
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The definition of market value provided in the URAR begins like this: "Market value is the most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale." So if you cannot specifically provide some reason as to why the conditions requisite to a fair sale were not present (REO, trust sale, distressed seller, special financing, etc etc) then how is the sales price not a strong indication of market value?? You could argue that the buyer or seller were not well-informed, but do you know that for sure? You must weigh that against the imperfect nature of the appraisal process, especially the scope of work used in a summary report.
 
The definition of market value provided in the URAR begins like this: "Market value is the most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale."

The verbiage is what it SHOULD bring, not what it DID bring (aka, actual contract price). MV is a set of presumed sale terms to frame the market value opinion, and not meant to correlate to a "real price". If the defnition was meant to bounce itself back to a "real" contract price, we would be out of business, because by this set of reasoning, every contract price, no matter whether it is supported by other sales or listings, automatically becomes MV, just because it (the contract price) exists.

So if you cannot specifically provide some reason as to why the conditions requisite to a fair sale were not present (REO, trust sale, distressed seller, special financing, etc etc) then how is the sales price not a strong indication of market value??

The reason we have a job and the whole reason the res appraisal profession exists, is because our clients and users of the appraisal do not want to accept that a contract price automatically represents MV, even when "fair sale" conditions are present.

When buyers use their OWN money, aka pay cash, then the buyer has so much confidence in the contract price that they are willing to spend their own cash, thus, nobody else cares if the contract price represents MV or not.

But when the lender lends THEIR money, they care whether a contract price represents MV to more than just this individual buyer. They want to know if this contract price is the most probable price that the typically motivated well informed buyer who has substitute properties to choose from would pay.

That is where we are called in...does this price represent MV to the range of typical buyers for this property, when compared to substitutes, or does it only represent MV to this particular buyer in this one deal?

You could argue that the buyer or seller were not well-informed, but do you know that for sure?

Doesn't matter if they were well informed or not. The lender wants to know , would OTHER buyers be likely to pay this price for the subject assuming no concessions or perks or special financing is in play?

Why are you so worried...when contract prices are in sync with market values, they are very easy to support. When they are not, that is easy to see as well. The problem arises when appraisers step out of their role as disinterested third parties , and start becoming advocates for the deal, or for the contract price. This is contrary to the certification you sign on each reprot, that you are a disinterested third party.

You must weigh that against the imperfect nature of the appraisal process, especially the scope of work used in a summary report.

This is a fundamental problem. If you ( and others who use this argument that "appraisals are just an opinion, and appraisals are not perfect" statement )....if you think so little of your own profession, and so little of your own ability to develop a supported opinion of MV, then please stop appraising. Sell real estate, perhaps.

When appraisers believe that a buyer and seller coming to a purchase price agreement provides superior proof of MV then their own ability to derive a credible, supported opinion of MV, they truly should not be appraising. If they think so little of the appraisal process, why are they signing their name to a report?

True, an appraisal is not perfect. It is not expected to be.

But, appraising does have a set of proven standards and methodolgy in place that when done correctly, will develop a CREDIBLE and SUPPORTED value. Note that the standard is to develop credible, reliable, supported values, not "perfect" values.

The first step in providing a credible and supported value is to approach the assignment as a disinterested third party. As soon as you take up advocay for the seller or the deal or the contract price, you are no longer a disinterested third party and should step aside from the assignment.
 
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