AQB Update On Proposed Changes To Appraiser Qualifications

[J Grant]

Why, because I place the responsibility for the results of the puppy mills on the individuals who ran them? Because I place the responsibility for the results of the oversupply on the people who created it? Because I place the responsibility for the appraisers underbidding each other on the individuals doing it?

AFAICT the difference between your worldview and mine is that I don't think of my peers as children who need to be protected by a person or persons with superior knowledge and virtue; but rather as adults who can and should make better decisions WRT their long term interests.

Unfortunately, the "adults" as a whole have proved incapable, ( due to market pressures impossible to withstand ) How many more decades of loss and erosion does the field on the res side need to demonstrate that? When the field no longer exists, or is so weak it is on life support, you might realize that has not worked?

I hardly think keeping a degree requirement in place means people are like children. While an individual can self determine, a profession at risk does need protection. You simply favor all the protection being extended to the corporate and AMC interests. They can sit on boards, influence policy, lobby to change legislation in their favor, under pay to the point it drives quality people out of appraising and that's all fine by you. .

 

[George Hatch]

Just as I don't agree with raising the qualifications standards (college degree) as a means to protect our own turf and increase our income, I don't agree with lowering it because by having it might crowd-out those who cannot afford college (and I've already addressed that specific question when raised by Ken earlier in this thread).

IMO, this isn't about economics. It is about determining if a college degree (4-years... but I don't have an issue if it is a 2-year degree... or perhaps a less-than-2-year certification which is the way many colleges are going for specialized training; but I'd advocate for a recognized certificate rather than a hodge-podge of classes; and that certification include college level math, writing, finance courses) is a legitimate requisite for being a licensed appraiser.
The question I ask myself is, in addition to the required appraisal-courses we take for qualified education, is some level of "formal" education (college-level) a legitimate requisite for new entrants? I think it is. I think a degree is a legitimate requisite. Whether a 2- or 4-year degree, or a formalized certification program granted by a college, I'm not as decided.

If and when the AQB or anyone else can draw the connection between the post-licensing performance of each group at each level of academic education and draw their line-of-death on that basis I will have ample reason to support that line.

 

[Deleted member 130081]

Well this conversation is almost 50 pages of circles, so why not repeat myself.

If the true goal/cause of the AQB increasing requirements is in pursuit of a better appraisal, when will someone finally address the truth of the sales data? Bad data = bad appraisal. Good data = good appraisal. They do teach that stuff in appraiser school. When was the last time you read a report where the appraiser took a minute to write about (reconcile) the quantity and quality of data? That is a USPAP requirement, for anyone who likes to think about USPAP (You know, the book of standards that states its purpose is to advance and maintain the public trust in the appraisal profession).

IMO, the problem with "bad" appraisals is not bad appraisers, its a bad form (talking about residential lending here, as that's the major market share). The GSE forms were created by the client, not appraiser consensus. The GSE forms were created before the days of better data (internet). The better data proves/suggests the forms are a) not appropriate as they may mislead the reader into thinking/making assumptions about what is possible and b) create an unrealistic expectation of clients. When the forms reflect the true landscape of appraisal development, both what is possible and appropriate, clients, users and the public will have a better impression of our profession. So long as we are forced to smash the square into the circle, the reports will continue to look "bad" and we will be blamed and charged with incompetence.

 

[George Hatch]

Unfortunately, the "adults" as a whole have proved incapable, ( due to market pressures impossible to withstand ) How many more decades of loss and erosion does the field on the res side need to demonstrate that? When the field no longer exists, or is so weak it is on life support, you might realize that has not worked?

I hardly think keeping a degree requirement in place means people are like children. While an individual can self determine, a profession at risk does need protection. You simply favor all the protection being extended to the corporate and AMC interests. They can sit on boards, influence policy, lobby to change legislation in their favor, under pay to the point it drives quality people out of appraising and that's all fine by you. .

I hardly think keeping a degree requirement in place means people are like children.

Way to completely miss the point I'm making that the appeal to the state to protect us from ourselves is one example of infantilizing our peers as being too stupid to make responsible decisions. Too stupid to ever learn from our own mistakes.

I don't think the use of the state to solve what amounts to a cultural problem among the appraisers on the SFR side of the business (but apparently not the commercial side) is a good idea.

 

[Joe Flacco]

The training system for residential appraisers has been broken since the beginning. At this point the users of our services (mainly mortgage lenders) have had enough. On the back of the bachelor's degree requirement the big players are pushing "education in place of experience" and residential appraisers have offered no viable alternatives to fix what's obviously broken. Offering an alternative track doesn't mean anyone hates education, it's an effort to keep field experience for trainees in the mix. In the absence of offering an alternative track, weighting education in place of experience is a viable answer to those who truly value education as opposed to those who believe an advanced degree is worth nothing more than a "Yes" checkbox on an application.

Bachelors degree requirement with a new experience/education-in-place-of model can work. It can work in a large local office model. It would have to be a combination of education and field experience. Most of you guys are trying to cling on to this model of appraisers all being independent and working from home. You guys are unable to see the appraisal profession any other way.

 

[J Grant]

Way to completely miss the point I'm making that the appeal to the state to protect us from ourselves is one example of infantilizing our peers as being too stupid to make responsible decisions. Too stupid to ever learn from our own mistakes.

I don't think the use of the state to solve what amounts to a cultural problem among the appraisers on the SFR side of the business (but apparently not the commercial side) is a good idea.

If you want to attribute the poor results on res side to something else, that's fine. But clearly a low, or mixed barrier to entry has not worked The college degree on commercial side is not at risk for being rolled back Why aren't you arguing for that to be dropped, or training shortened for ST Gen license? What about all the quality, disadvantaged people being shut out of it?.

 

[Joe Flacco]

A national education-in-place-of program is going to be terrible.

 

[Non Sequitur]

Bachelors degree requirement with a new experience/education-in-place-of model can work. It can work in a large local office model. It would have to be a combination of education and field experience. Most of you guys are trying to cling on to this model of appraisers all being independent and working from home.

That's one plan I've read; a bachelor's degree, a practicum course with a couple of months field training makes a certified appraiser. Sorry if I don't agree, experience has always been what makes an appraiser an appraiser, not a bachelor's in fashion merchandising and a practicum course. Either way, I have zero doubts the practicum path will be approved and in a year or two we'll have a flood of noob residential appraisers pumping out Fannie form widgets.

 

[Joe Flacco]

The training model needs a overhaul as much as, if not more than the old licensing qualifications.

 

[Non Sequitur]

The training model needs a overhaul as much as, if not more than the old licensing qualifications.

Here's the problem; those who believed the bachelor's degree requirement would change the world for mortgage origination appraisers never offered anything other than excuses and arguments. So here we are, change will come form those who are offering solutions.