Arm's length transaction

[J Grant]

Dead wrong about what, and why?

You need to provide proof when you make statements like that.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

You are a real piece of work. YOU THINK I DON'T KNOW THAT A TRANSACTION CAN BE ARMS LENGTH AND SELL FOR BELOW MARKET OR ABOVE?

Who are you to assume what I know, or don't know. You hawk dive into a post, extract a sentence, and asume it applies to all appraisal knowledge, or everything a poster does in their work practice.

I never see any appraisal content in your posts, but do see a lot of hounding other posters. You never, or rarely put your own appraisal opinions on the forum, you just jump into posts and take a statement out of context and then tell that poster to buy a real estate book. That must be very taxing.

Ah, where to start. How about the fact that your first sentence in this post contradicts you first sentence in Post #3 Your first sentence in Post #3 is dead wrong (specific enough for ya?). You verify that fact by your first sentence in the post above where you clearly reverse directions.

 

[J Grant]

Ah, where to start. How about the fact that your first sentence in this post contradicts you first sentence in Post #3 Your first sentence in Post #3 is dead wrong (specific enough for ya?). You verify that fact by your first sentence in the post above where you clearly reverse directions.

What?? You are proving I am dead wrong by claming my first sentence in post # 3 is dead wrong? Which sentence, and how is it dead wrong? You can't just say someone is "dead wrong "twice, as if saying it twice makes it true. Please explain what is "dead wrong" about the sentence, and quote the sentences so I know what you are talking about.

I don't have time to reread the posts right now to see which sentences you think contradict each other, so please post them here, one after another.

And if someone posts two different sentences in two different posts that might represent exploring different possiblilites of a problem, how does that make that person's opinon "dead wrong?"

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

What?? You are proving I am dead wrong by claming my first sentence in post # 3 is dead wrong? Which sentence, and how is it dead wrong? You can't just say someone is "dead wrong "twice, as if saying it twice makes it true. Please explain what is "dead wrong" about the sentence, and quote the sentences so I know what you are talking about.

I don't have time to reread the posts right now to see which sentences you think contradict each other, so please post them here, one after another.

And if someone posts two different sentences in two different posts that might represent exploring different possiblilites of a problem, how does that make that person's opinon "dead wrong?"

the FIRST sentence in Post #3 indicates that you don't know the definition of "arm's length"-- it is dead wrong. Sorry you don't have the time to reread your posts--obviously you aren't spending the time reading a dictionary of real estate terms.

 

[Calvin the Airedale]

You are a real piece of work. YOU THINK I DON'T KNOW THAT A TRANSACTION CAN BE ARMS LENGTH AND SELL FOR BELOW MARKET OR ABOVE?

Who are you to assume what I know, or don't know. You hawk dive into a post, extract a sentence, and assume it applies to all appraisal knowledge, or everything a poster does in their work practice.

I never see any appraisal content in your posts, but do see a lot of hounding other posters. You never, or rarely put your own appraisal opinions on the forum, you just jump into posts and take a statement out of context and then tell that poster to buy a real estate book. That must be very taxing.

I'm sorry, I had to quote the above post. Especially the part about, "You hawk dive into a post, extract a sentence, and assume it applies to all appraisal knowledge..." I found it so entertaining. Nice prose!

Pete might seem...OK, Pete is condescending at times, but not without good reason. He's forgotten more about appraisals than a lot of forum members think they know. That is to say, he's usually correct (except when he's arguing with me or about politics).

Otherwise the rest of your post, Ms. Grant, is wrong as regards Pete's knowledge.

CANative and Pete are right. The others may be also.

FWIW, here's another definition of "Arm's Length" from Real Estate Appraisal Terminology, Ballinger Publishing Co, Byrl N. Boyce, Ph.D. editor, 1975.

"A transaction freely arrived at in the open market, unaffected by abnormal pressure or by the absence of normal competitive negotiation as might be true in the case of a transaction between related parties."

The implication of both definitions and the requirements for an analysis of the sale agreement suggest the report should contain a more detailed and nuanced analysis of the sale agreement. Perhaps an analysis that even quotes one or both definitions.

What is important to note in such an explanation, regardless of whether you conclude the sale agreement is "arm's length" or not, is what semblance the sale price bears to your valuation which does estimate the value in "arm's length" terms. If the value is similar to the sale price, one might well conclude that regardless of the relationship, the deal appears arm's length as to terms, conditions and price. This, I think, is what the UW is looking for.

:icon_mrgreen:

 

[J Grant]

what was the sale price? Arms length transaction is when the relationships between the parties is such that it did not affect sales price.

Here is the sentence from post 3, the first sentence you refer to. What is "dead wrong" about this sentence?

The first part was a question to the OP about the subject sale price. Explain to me how asking a question is "dead wrong"

The second part of the sentence states that in an arms length transaction , there is no relation between the parties that affects sales price. That is what the sentence means. You still have not explained what is "dead wrong" about it. You just keep saying over and over, that it is dead wrong.

Telling me to buy a RE dictionary is not the same as proving I am wrong.

 

[Pittsburgh Pete]

Arm's length has no nexus to sales price whatsover. That is why some arm's length transactions reflect sales price above or below market value--they are still arm's length transactions. If I sell my rental property to a tenant, it is an arm's length transaction whether I sell to him at a discount because I don't have to pay sales commissions, wait to market the property, etc. If I take him to the cleaners it is still an arm's length transaction. In either instance it might not be at market value but it remains arm's length.

Get it?

 

[J Grant]

Arm's length has no nexus to sales price whatsover. That is why some arm's length transactions reflect sales price above or below market value--they are still arm's length transactions. If I sell my rental property to a tenant, it is an arm's length transaction whether I sell to him at a discount because I don't have to pay sales commissions, wait to market the property, etc. If I take him to the cleaners it is still an arm's length transaction. In either instance it might not be at market value but it remains arm's length.

Get it?

I agree, and my sentence agreed !! You seem to have read something into my sentence that was not there. The sentence said, that the relationships between parties in an arms length transaction is such that it does not impact price ! I did not start talking about whether or not that meant the properties sells over market, or below market price. I was referring to the fact that the parties in an arms length transactions have no relationship , therefore, their lack of a relationship is not a factor that would impact price, it is neutral. Where in the sentence is a referene to whether arms length transactions sell for under or over market prices?

You read that into the sentence.

Get it?

 

[JSmith43]

Correct. I'm not changing anything on the report other than just wondering about the Arm's Length portion. I've changed it to arms length and wrote a quick blurb about being purchased by the current tenant.

Thanks again,

Good idea, rubber chicken.

BTW, I think that handle (rubberchicken) inspired jgrant to use the term "hawk dive" to describe Pete's swooping in to comment.

This was good humor. Like I said before, Pete's a smart appraiser, but politically clueless guy & comes in handy every once in a while. Let's not ban him.....Or was that the Blue Guy?:icon_lol:

 

[Joyce Potts]

Not read the prior posts, but did you verify there were not concessions like a percentage of the rental amounts applied to a downpayment, etc? Frankly, I would not have used that as a comp without complete verification which you're not likely to get. But then again, one comp doesn't make a market.