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Attic Frost, Drooping crop ceiling, and FHA

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In mild cases the underside of the sheathing will turn gray, worse cases it turns black and may grow mold or mildew in the warm months. Here are some pictures of the result of poor ventilation:
 
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I am appraising a home for an FHA purchase and during the inspection I came across some issues I have never had to deal with, at least not on FHA loans.

The subject has a full walk-up floored attic, unfinished, floor insulated, not the roof, and came across quite a bit of frost on the inside of the roof, pretty much all throughout. Roof was covered in snow, so I couldn't see anything

The kitchen also has a drop ceiling that is drooping a bit. The basement has some ceiling tiles torn down, though as this is the basement, it isn't a big concern. The home is not is great condition, but nothing else too bad, I need to have the report "subject to" pealing paint being scraped, and painted, as it is about 75 years old.

I know the FHA says to have the report "subject to repairs" when it comes to attic problems, obviously, there is moisture, but in this case, I don't know what the issue is. It is pretty much the same with the drop ceiling, I suspect it might be a minor issue, but also don't want to make that determination.


My 2 cents...

The frost is most likely due to the fact that you have air trapped between two insulated areas. The snow on the roof is acting like insulation. Not sure I would condition on a roofing inspection. I would consider it improper ventilation (required repairs per FHA) and note that the roof was snow covered during inspection (also required by FHA) and let the DEU decide on the roofing inspection.
 
Yes, instinct tells me it is a ventilation issue, but with all the other unknowns with the roof concern me a bit. I also want to be sure I don't want to take on the liability if I am wrong. I think, to be safe, I will call for an inspection. After all, this has to have been ongoing for a while, I don't know what damage may have been caused by ongoing moisture.

I can't judge without first hand viewing the amount of moister for myself. That is your judgment. But if it is so much that it is a major concern, the source of the moister may need to be addressed as well as ventilation.

It could be one or the other or a combination of both the source of moister and poor ventilation.

When the attic temp is just above freezing, excessive moister can cause damage.
 
Gosh.......what a picky appraiser.....(lender speaking). We NEVER have FHA appraisers come back with such drivel. Good luck killing the deal......(ya think they really want to know these things?) Since FHA/HUD never checked appraisals previously (like fannie now is to the nth degree), read a story where FHA/HUD is now suing 22 banks for sending them bogus mortgages........amazing.
 
Gosh.......what a picky appraiser.....(lender speaking). We NEVER have FHA appraisers come back with such drivel. Good luck killing the deal......(ya think they really want to know these things?) Since FHA/HUD never checked appraisals previously (like fannie now is to the nth degree), read a story where FHA/HUD is now suing 22 banks for sending them bogus mortgages........amazing.

Is this a world against chicks in general rant or world against Kim/revelation speech in regards to FHA protocol?
 
Yes, instinct tells me it is a ventilation issue, but with all the other unknowns with the roof concern me a bit. I also want to be sure I don't want to take on the liability if I am wrong. I think, to be safe, I will call for an inspection. After all, this has to have been ongoing for a while, I don't know what damage may have been caused by ongoing moisture.

You hit the nail on the head... I am relieved that you came to this decision. This is what you saw, you know it's not " normal", you don't specialize in that field. Safest choice to make. I read an article this AM that a lender is being fined $614 M for filing false FHA/VA loan docs. It's not worth the risk for something out of our scope.
 
... you know it's not " normal", you don't specialize in that field.

Actually, in these extreme conditions happening in the midwest this winter, it is very "normal". In fact, its unavoidable.

Extreme cold, snow blocking vents, any amount of moisture that's commonly found in attics will result in frost.
 
Yes, instinct tells me it is a ventilation issue, but with all the other unknowns with the roof concern me a bit. I also want to be sure I don't want to take on the liability if I am wrong. I think, to be safe, I will call for an inspection. After all, this has to have been ongoing for a while, I don't know what damage may have been caused by ongoing moisture.
Mr. Lisle; Thanks for stopping by with real questions. This is a tough issue, but over time you'll get better at dealing with things you've never seen before, and may possibly never see again.

You're not the expert. Now that that crucial point is established, let's move on to stage 2 of the appraisal process. You must assume safety, assume a reasonable repair with cost tally, or assume a more qualified professional should be brought in (in which case; you still need a general repair tally.)

Old woods, improper ventillation, possibly unpermitted use changing, and who knows what else. When ceilings drip and droop, everything behind them is highly likely to need some repair or tear down to get back up to speed.

Subject to: Passing inspection from a qualified home inspector or county home inspector. Or alternatively; Furnishing receipts of service, and service reccomendations from a qualified repair or inspection servicer in that field. / The appraiser is not an expert, but does provide an estimate to comply with the lenders requirements on subject to repair conditions. The repairs tally and estimate are subject to change or correction, if the appraisers repair estimates turn out to be incorrect, under, or over estimated. / The (owners) are advised that a potential problem exists, and the appraisal process is now subject to either curing of condition, or passing of condition, from a qualified inspection or repair professional in that field of service. The appraiser is not a qualified inspection or repair person, but the appraiser will be happy to provide a 1004d final inspection form (no value update - $150), to verify that repairs have been completed, or alternatively to acquire and scan in contractor paperwork indicating repairs were not necessary. /

In simpler terms: Pass that hot potato down the line. Assume, disclose, estimate, make passing contingent on someone who's actually qualified to make those calls.

Sure I will call this or that, even this or that which is way outside of my experience. If the problem is obvious and straightforward. For structural issues, and concealed issues, sometimes it's best to call in the heavy hitters and force the borrowers or lender to pay for it. That's the ultimate liability brush off, if you're concerned about deficient condition.

I've heard legends of the good old days, where appraisers would just always force an inspection. There's some mortgage lender about that, which says the condition must be more than speculative, for an appraiser to throw his weight around like that these days though. Seeing is believing; If you've got a picture of unusual condition; Put it big and clearly described in the report, alongside clearly and tediously explained addenda regarding condition, estimates, and possible uncertainty you may have.

Nobody can sue you for saying I don't know call someone else. But they can sue you for acting like there was no problem when there was a problem. You're less likely to get sued for calling everything a problem, but in such a scenario of overuse of subject to conditioning leeway; you could lose clients left and right. It's a tentative balance regarding repairs.

So what to call and what not to call? What is home and safety, what is not? Cosmetics are not. They don't need to change out stained up ceiling drywall. They do however need to correct the source of moisture penetration or deficient stabilization woods. The spirit of the requirement is this: Cost prevention, for better loan viability over the term of the note. So don't go overboard, but if there are major issues that could sack a borrower when the problem finally needs dealt with, that could send the loan south. At that time is when the liability is of concern. So that's your soapbox; You want to help contribute to the viability of the loan product, by way of assuring at least a minimum standard of acceptability regarding major items. A tiny leak can become a major item, but a lot of ruined carpet, usually never rises to the level of mandatory repair.

There you go.

Jeremy Hall Appraisals - Colorado.
 
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