Barns, stables and other odd buildings

[Jeff Horton]

Just about had a yelling match with an inDUHHvidual on the phone a while ago. I didn't loose my temper but I came close. Several times I had to raise my voice to talk above him in order to finish what I was saying. You know the kind, they ask a question but dont want to hear the answer. Just want to argue.

Anyway, big issue is what value the horse barn adds. Its a super adequacy in our market no doubt. Marshall and Swifts has the cost between 35 and 50K depending on the quality you use. He says he spent 50K on it and that may be true.

No matched pairs and I only find 4 sales with stables. There is not enough info to really know if they are even comparable to mine. I have a percentage of the cost to construct in mind that I "think" it will contribute. Just curious if any of you have any data for you market and if so how much do barns and stables contribute.

And yes there is a market here for this but it would be a very small market. Most people just dont need 6500 sq ft of stables. And I am pretty sure that I need this person as a client either!

PS Meant to say I DONT need this guy as a client.

 

[Rlong]

I run in to the "horse property" quite a bit in Colorado. Fortunately I usually find several comps with horse facilities. We even have to differentiate those. (Outdoor Arenas, Special fencing, horse "runs" or whatever there called. $50K sounds about right for cost new but I generally don't adjust em $50K up. And yes i get yelled at too. : ) I have enough market data to "indicate" an approxiamte 50% cost of new adjustment. I still avoid making $25K adjustments by trying to find inferior and superior horsy facilities. I like to keep adjustments Between $5-20K for "facilities and outbuildings" if I can. Did I mention I sometimes get yelled at.

I also compare them to the guy who has the much over improved shop/business on his oversize lot. (as a subject or a comp) The structure can frequently be comparable in cost to the large barn, then I just have to deal with all the fence, etc.

I have picked owners/freinds/aquantences brains over the years on how much they spent on X,Y,Z horsy stuff. Most realized they would never get back 100% of their cost/investment. I LOVE asking horse people (frequently ladies, and frequently involved in the CSU Vet school) how much more they would pay for house "X" with horsy stuff. They generally do NOT say as much as it would cost to build it.

All that said, it would not be unusual "out here" for the owner to have $100,000 in horsy "stuff" and me tending towards a $50,000 adjustment. However I would not make it accross the board, I would go many miles to find a few horsey comps.

Sorry I got long winded, I had to learn about all this when I started appraising. I'm appraising my second large farm tomorrow, (narrative), I'll be talkin' all farmer/rancher. How many cow/calf units can you run out there? How many cutting didja get on the back 40 the last coupla years? I love appraisal~! Still don't have the cowboy hat yet.
Bob

 

[Dee Dee]

I agree with Bob....been there done that.
Horse people, especially those with big barns, can get very touchy about such things.
Go the extra miles to get a comparable with similar horse set-up. Though larger outbuildings may not be 'typical' in the subject neighborhood, my experience is that horse people will commute further as long as they can have the facilities that they want. These folks will defend the value of their set-up just as fiercely as a golf fanatic will defend the value of his golf course view.

Bob,
Whatta you mean you don't have a cowboy hat! 8O
You live in Colorado, for crying out loud.......get with it! :lol:

 

[Mike Garrett RAA]

I can ride fence, pull calves, and cut nuts....but I ain't no stinkin cowboy! Do have several pair of Tony Lama's but no cowboy hat and certainly don't have a "wrangler butt" as Dee Dee can attest!

I personally believe "horse properties" fall into that catagory of "complex appraisals" and should be handled with extreme caution.

 

[Verne Hebert]

The acreage and complex have been my speciality over the years.

Having appraised hundreds of horse facilities. Here is the free tip-If you want a horse facility, buy one; do not build one. You can convert this to appraiser lingo.

The contributory value of the outbuildings are determined by there contibutory utility to the site (i.e. most often the size of site)............And the actual "utility" of the outbuilding. Hence if the utility exists to the site, then normally, the bare-bones version is generally adequate.

Generally I will agree with the earlier statement, 50 % is in the ball park. But this is generally, and these are all case by case. Certainly no more than barebones depreciated value ever.

These are fun. Good luck.

 

[Dee Dee]

I can ride fence, pull calves, and cut nuts....but I ain't no stinkin cowboy! Do have several pair of Tony Lama's but no cowboy hat and certainly don't have a "wrangler butt" as Dee Dee can attest!

Mike....sorry dude, I'm afraid that I wasn't paying close enough attention to give an opinion. 8O :lol:
Cowboy hats are the best for keeping rain and snow from going down the back of your neck and looking good at the same time. It is this appraisers opinion that ALL men look dashing in a cowboy hat.

 

[Bemis Pownall]

YOULL FIND GOOD REFERENCE IN FANNIE MAES GUIDE.

TO SUMMARIZE IT; DONT ADJUST MUCH....


:icecream:

 

[Frank Bertrand]

Value doesn't equal price doesn't equal cost. Put that on the back of your business card. It works.

 

[Roger]

This is not meant to offend any horse people, but I have found that folks that raise, train, and show horses, generally have little common sense when it comes to the value of anything else.

A couple of recent examples:

1. People doing a refi on a 2000 S.F. house with attatched 2000 S.F. horse barn complete with office, tack room, wash room, grooming room, etc. Refi is to purchase a $60K trailer toter truck, to pull their horses to shows. Six months later, house is sold at the courthouse, couldn't make payments. They couldn't afford that truck at all.

2. Folks doing a refi on a $90K house, Large horse barn. They are doing refi to put up $30K worth of PVC fence around their horse pasture.

3. Former employee, one day noted the plates in his car were expired. When asked why, I was told couldn't afford car insurance, but could afford to keep three horses.

Generally speaking, over the years, I have had more difficulties discussing property values with horse people than any other group that I can recall. A lot of these people spend money wether they have it or not.

Once again, these are just my observations, and an unscientific opinion, but I was just wondering if any one else has made similar observations.

 

[Frank Bertrand]

Hobby farmers are another trouble area.

Their land, tilling practices, dirt is all better than any one elses. I listen to them without saying a word, and during the inspection of obsolete barn, typically a one bank former dairy, tell them that I farmed for 20 yrs before appraising. that keeps them quiet for the rest of the inspection.

They have to have the best fencing, barb wire, gates, new kubota 4 wd tractors, all to pretend to do something that is increasing becoming rare make a living off the land, raise a family and be satisfied in your accomplishments.