Basement Entry FHA Safety Issue

[fishbig010]

I am not a trainee, just don't know how to change my profile if it still says trainee.

I am working on a property in Florida, and basements aren't too common. I ran into a basement entry that looks like it had an unpermitted stairway at some point. I am concerned about the rope "handrail" and was going to flag it to add handrails. In addition to the trip rope going across the staircase I was concerned with how steep the stairs are. I can't find anything about building code requirements for basement egress or ingress in Florida, and 4000.1 doesn't have anything I can find either. I'm hoping y'all can give me some advice on how to proceed.

 

[J Grant]

I am not a trainee, just don't know how to change my profile if it still says trainee.

I am working on a property in Florida, and basements aren't too common. I ran into a basement entry that looks like it had an unpermitted stairway at some point. I am concerned about the rope "handrail" and was going to flag it to add handrails. In addition to the trip rope going across the staircase I was concerned with how steep the stairs are. I can't find anything about building code requirements for basement egress or ingress in Florida, and 4000.1 doesn't have anything I can find either. I'm hoping y'all can give me some advice on how to proceed.

Basements hardly exist in my area of S FL-
I would think condition it subject to handrail as a safety issue would be necessary

As far as steepness, I believe ANSI or a similar source could have a minimum rise and depth for stair steps which would apply to stairs whether to basement or in a main level.

 

[fishbig010]

Basements hardly exist in my area of S FL-
I would think condition it subject to handrail as a safety issue would be necessary

As far as steepness, I believe ANSI or a similar source could have a minimum rise and depth for stair steps which would apply to stairs whether to basement or in a main level.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[Mark K]

When you think stairs, think convenience store, 7-11. 7" height, 11" tread. Good rule of thumb.

Yours doesn't look like it meets any current building code but whether or not its an FHA problem, can't help you. Haven't done FHA in over 20 years.

I don't see a good way to fix it. Lengthen the stairs so they're not so steep and you'll run out of head room.

 

[Overimprovement]

One other issue here--is this a basement or a cellar? This gets into more gray area. Just like attic access can be anything, including a tight scuttle, so can cellar access. Essentially cellars can be treated like crawlspaces, and we know how fun some of those can be to get into--even if mechanicals are located in the crawlspace. So what something is called is the first determination.

The area you picture looks to be totally below grade. If so, no matter how nicely finished, it is technically a cellar, per any real estate dictionary. In fact, an area that is 50% or more below grade is technically a cellar. Now each municipality/county may have different definitions, so you may need to check with them.

So, IF it is a cellar, no need to call anything out. Whether or not or how nicely an area is finished does not dictate what it is called. Too many appraisers automatically call anything with steps below the main level a basement, and that is not necessarily the case. A good working knowledge of your local codes will help you greatly.

 

[KHS445]

I would call it restricted access below grade storage. The steps are steep, the opening is small and would limit what you could haul up and down, and the ceiling height appears low. It would have some value as storage space or a possible workshop, probably similar to a large storage building. In Michigan some of our older homes have what is called a Michigan basement. Basically, a partial basement with limited functional use.

 

[KHS445]

If your value range is reasonable, you might account for this space in your final reconciliation.

 

[fishbig010]

One other issue here--is this a basement or a cellar? This gets into more gray area. Just like attic access can be anything, including a tight scuttle, so can cellar access. Essentially cellars can be treated like crawlspaces, and we know how fun some of those can be to get into--even if mechanicals are located in the crawlspace. So what something is called is the first determination.

The area you picture looks to be totally below grade. If so, no matter how nicely finished, it is technically a cellar, per any real estate dictionary. In fact, an area that is 50% or more below grade is technically a cellar. Now each municipality/county may have different definitions, so you may need to check with them.

So, IF it is a cellar, no need to call anything out. Whether or not or how nicely an area is finished does not dictate what it is called. Too many appraisers automatically call anything with steps below the main level a basement, and that is not necessarily the case. A good working knowledge of your local codes will help you greatly.

This is good to know! I have only worked in coastal areas of Florida, and NEEEEEEVER see basements. I would have never thought of calling it a cellar. This is why appraiser forum is the best.

 

[fishbig010]

I would call it restricted access below grade storage. The steps are steep, the opening is small and would limit what you could haul up and down, and the ceiling height appears low. It would have some value as storage space or a possible workshop, probably similar to a large storage building. In Michigan some of our older homes have what is called a Michigan basement. Basically, a partial basement with limited functional use.

This is good to know! Thank you to all you northern appraisers for helping a Florida boy with the intricacies of underground living!