Bathroom Counts

[Mike Boyd]

I think somewhere in FHA guidelines there is a definition of a full bath.....which includes either a tub or shower. Look it up and refer them to that. If you wish, ask them for a modern reference for a 3/4 bath.

 

[Rob Frazier]

3/4 Bathroom--Memories of the Good Old Days

If I remember correctly, the 3/4 bathroom designation appeared on the original FNMA appraisal form back in 1975 or so. There were check blocks for 1/4 bath (just the toilet), 1/2 bath (toilet and sink), 3/4 bath (toilet, sink, shower stall) and 1 bath (toilet, sink, and tub). If there was a shower head over the tub, they didn't add an extra 1/4, it was still a 1 bath.

The form was four pages, legal sized, joined at the top. The whole report was there, data, analysis, valuation methods, sketch, map, certification and limiting conditions. They were tricky to insert into a typewriter and line up.

It was decided that since the 3/4 bath was not universally utilized nationwide that we should follow the three function rule: " If you can do three things, it's a full bath. If you can do two things, it's a half bath." The 1977-78 era forms dropped the 3/4 bath.

The key here is that in the 1970's, in some areas of the country, bathrooms were still a novelty. I'm not sure that is still the case in 2010, but maybe your client is reminiscing about the glory days of better mortgages and lower foreclosures.

By the way, Fannie Mae qualified and issued numbers to appraisers back then. It took a number of samples, recommendations and a few months to gain approval. I guess that quality of is not as popular now as it was then.

Feel free to tell the client that you have heard of this nomenclature from some "old appraisers" but that you address the issue of market preference for bathroom configurations in your analysis of functional utility.

 

[Winds]

No, No, No.
A toilet and sink + 1/2 bath.
A FULL bath cosist of a toilet, sink, and a means to bathe. Doesn't matter if its a tub alone, a shower alone, or both.
If I come across a shower or even a shower and sink in a basement or stuck in an old closet, its an added shower.

 

[Winds]

I know an appraiser that works in the Long Island, New York area. She says if a house has two full baths and three half baths its a 2.555
Where as I would call that a 2:3

 

[DKAYTES]

Banks and appraisal is how you explained it, shower or tub/shower is 1, I am from Cleveland and my dad was a Broker/appraiser, (yes in Ohio in the 1970's you could be both, on the same deal even and also the loan officer). When I started in 1978 my brain had a hard time as we called shower's 3/4 also but I finally got it. I see your in New Jersey, just explain that appraisal standard is shower is a full 1. So my question how do you guys count two .5 baths? other than explaining in the report? and when I was taught the county assessor would call a master bath with two separate toilets, his and hers with a bidet, two sinks, bath and shower a full 2 baths. Do you just call it 1 the master bath or do you call it a full "2" .

I tried to explain to the "newbie" appraiser :new_2gunsfiring_v1 I know he's a newbie because I looked him up ASC.gov) that we appraise according to what the market dictates. If his market dictates one thing - cool. But here ( Philadelphia area) it's a full bath. They were concerned about the "gridding " aspect. I figured out how to grid it, sent it in with a detailed explaination that it was the request of the client, however the market views it as a full bath and NO value difference. For petes sake, it's not a 20K difference in value or anything like that. BTW, the property was in a suburb of Philly in PA.

Thank for the input.

 

[DKAYTES]

There is no such thing as a 3/4 bath. You can either take a bath in the room, or not. How about a bathroom without a commode....would it still be a toilet? And, yes I have seen several like that. The commode was in a seperate room, with a seperate door. Looked more like a closet.

A lender is not the bathroom police.

Agreed Don. The way I see it - It's the utility of the room - Can a person bathe in the room, standing in a shower or filling a bathtub... then it is the same - a full bath. Why do these lenders break our chops with this stuff ? m2:

 

[stangtime]

Wow. I didn't know there could be so much discussion on this topic. I do what Greg does (post #23). Simple.
I had a house a few weeks ago that had, on the second floor, a "half bathroom" in the hall with a toilet and sink. Then in another room on the second floor there was a tub, but no shower attachment. I viewed the utility of the "bathroom(s)" on the second floor as having the equivalent of one full bathroom. How would that be allocated otherwise with all of this fancy 1.555, 1.33, 1.3/4...?

Dan