Best software for doing inspections with an iPad?

[Terrel L. Shields]

is that a software requirement? I like to be more accurate than that.

Precise? or Accurate? False precision accomplishes nothing. Are your comps measured to the tenth of a foot? Then your subject should not be either. It is meaningless. It's a math thing.

 

[Mejappz]

I have used inspect a lot with ClickForms and it works fine. The problems I have with it is the sketch is very basic and you can only use it for a 1004. No other forms are supported.

 

[RCA]

Precise? or Accurate? False precision accomplishes nothing. Are your comps measured to the tenth of a foot? Then your subject should not be either. It is meaningless. It's a math thing.

IF you look at an appraisal as a solution to a number of different kinds of problems, ...., many of those problems require a high degree of accuracy. Appraisers are far too focused on value. They think if they are within 5%, END OF STORY.

The reality is that many appraiser don't frigging really know what they are doing. THEY THINK they are within 5%, but maybe it is more like 10%. In fact when you get out to the extremes in quality and condition (the bottom 5% or top 5% of homes in the subject neighborhood), I would venture to guess that >10% accuracy is pretty common. I'm saying a home that is worth $800K will often be appraised at $900K, because the damned appraiser glosses over inadequacies. Same on the upper end, the usual phrase being "overbuilt" or some such thing (not that that isn't a possibility). Appraisers are partially protected by bracketing - if they can evenly bracket and BALANCE the major features. That is often hard to do; but basically impossible when you get into the lower and upper 5% of quality/condition.

Well, lenders see this crap all the time. And then when they see appraisals with some dumb sketch rounded to the foot, with all the figures agreeing with the assessor's data perfectly, they know the have a piece of s*****. They just know it.

You loose their trust. At least if you showed you had some competence in measurement and detail ... they might expect that to carry over into the valuation. Not that it would of course.

But it all ties in. Appraisers whose frame of mind is that "it doesn't matter", don't matter.

So, does accurate measurement matter? If you want to look at a sketch and get a good idea of what kind of house you are dealing with, it can matter big time. I look at most appraiser's dumb sketches and they really don't tell me a thing about the house. And because they are so sloppy, I don't even trust what I do see.

Believe me, it is all changing. Completely. You better believe it.

Eventually products like Matterport will become more viable and efficient and make much of the job a lot easier. In the meantime, you have to wrestle with the extra time to do good work and getting paid for it. It is a problem and we are going through a rough period.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

many of those problems require a high degree of accuracy

false precision is false precision. You can put lipstick on that pig and call it artificial intelligence. It won't be truly accurate EVER because heuristics cannot be entirely quantified. Judgment is required. Not one single solitary "trader" in the pits doesn't act upon their gut instinct from time to time, regardless their quant background. Otherwise you end up like LTCM who bet on their own Nobel Prize winning formula to vet the Russian bond market and bankrupted themselves and nearly took down the financial system with it in 1998. If billions of dollars are at stake and they blow up, do you honestly think a simple program to do $400 appraisals is going to have the same level of computerized brains that these hedge funds that blow up do? People don't buy houses by the tenth of a foot. So detailed quantification is meaningless in that context.

Hedge Funds and the Collapse of Long-Term Capital Management (Digest Summary)

www.cfainstitute.org

 

[RCA]

false precision is false precision. You can put lipstick on that pig and call it artificial intelligence. It won't be truly accurate EVER because heuristics cannot be entirely quantified. Judgment is required. Not one single solitary "trader" in the pits doesn't act upon their gut instinct from time to time, regardless their quant background. Otherwise you end up like LTCM who bet on their own Nobel Prize winning formula to vet the Russian bond market and bankrupted themselves and nearly took down the financial system with it in 1998. If billions of dollars are at stake and they blow up, do you honestly think a simple program to do $400 appraisals is going to have the same level of computerized brains that these hedge funds that blow up do? People don't buy houses by the tenth of a foot. So detailed quantification is meaningless in that context.

Hedge Funds and the Collapse of Long-Term Capital Management (Digest Summary)

www.cfainstitute.org

Yes, but it is very interesting ... I can safely make the statement that 99%+ of residential appraisers are effectively altering their sale prices for comparables, COMPLETELY UNAWARE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING, by not constraining their subjective adjustments such as quality and condition by the residual. OR IN OTHER WORDS 99%+ OF APPRAISERS ARE PUTTING LIPSTICK ON THE PIG!!!

Funny you should mention.

Of course, I was just waiting for an opening.

And this one misstep in methodology is the MAIN reason appraisals are off target.

And it is the one reason that AVMs are as good as they are (i.e. the best of the breed AVMs) They don't engage in this foul practice!!!

PIGGY LIPSTICK. - Good name for it.

I would never make a good AI instructor. I'm too harsh. I set high standards and don't believe teaching should serve the primary interest of making more money for the AI, which, admittedly and unfortunately, has to worry all the time about going out of business in the face of the very aggressive/friendly RICS.

Now having said that, I can also say, an appraiser proficient in non-parametric statistics, who can deal with the likes of MARS or R-earth, who knows, above all, how to apply statistical models to appraisal, can produce far more accurate appraisals than the best AVMs. Understanding of course, that it takes more time and costs correspondingly more; but then again, the appraiser does far more than an AVM, such as verifying the condition and features of the property.

ALSO. Those dumb linear regression programs that are packaged with appraisal software need to be kicking out the residuals for each of the comparables - that the appraisers can refer to in making their subjective judgements. BUT, if those "fancy" programs do that, you will see high residual values resulting from the LOW R2 values of dumb regression programs THAT WILL MAKE THE APPRAISERS VERY MUCH AWARE OF HOW USELESS THEY ARE!! -- They may give you a value of $100/sf for GLA and $20K for bathrooms, ... but $200K for Quality/Condition for a $400K home. Then it brings home just how worthless those programs are. That's another kind of PIGGY LIPSTICK.

 

[gringogigante]

Precise? or Accurate? False precision accomplishes nothing. Are your comps measured to the tenth of a foot? Then your subject should not be either. It is meaningless. It's a math thing.

I firmly believe we all get to do things however we want. So, this is just my opinion and you should disregard it if it doesn't work for you. But I think your most basic assumption that precise information is false information is wrong. Not sure what makes you think this, but if my industrial grade laser says a wall is 24.15' then I write down 24.15' on my sketch. When I sketch the house in ACI, it is never more than 2 or 3 tenths of an inch off. So it doesn't appear to be false at all.

But this argument is academic because we are TOLD to measure to "a tenth of a foot" by the ANSI standards that have been adopted by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA/HUD, ERC, VA, Nat'l Assoc of Realtors, Appraisal Foundation, Appraisal Institute, and virtually every state appraiser's board (including Arkansas). I suppose that you may be fortunate enough to appraisals for a company that never sells anything to the secondary market (Fannie and Freddie), but since they touch 90% of the loans out there I'd doubt it.

Just my opinion but if lenders wanted a "general" idea of what the home is worth, they could get a Barbie Doll (AKA real estate agent) to "generally" tell them. They hire us because they want accuracy.

Be better than the barbie dolls and lazy appraisers. Your job depends on it, and we need MORE appraisers.

P.S. I attended a class about Liability in Appraising where we saw data showing the number one reason for lawsuits against appraisers and agents was measuring disagreements.....

 

[gringogigante]

false precision is false precision. You can put lipstick on that pig and call it artificial intelligence. It won't be truly accurate EVER because heuristics cannot be entirely quantified. Judgment is required. Not one single solitary "trader" in the pits doesn't act upon their gut instinct from time to time, regardless their quant background. Otherwise you end up like LTCM who bet on their own Nobel Prize winning formula to vet the Russian bond market and bankrupted themselves and nearly took down the financial system with it in 1998. If billions of dollars are at stake and they blow up, do you honestly think a simple program to do $400 appraisals is going to have the same level of computerized brains that these hedge funds that blow up do? People don't buy houses by the tenth of a foot. So detailed quantification is meaningless in that context.

Hedge Funds and the Collapse of Long-Term Capital Management (Digest Summary)

www.cfainstitute.org

Heuristics are mental shortcuts we take when decision making is overwhelming and a faster judgement is needed. Measuring a house isn't overwhelming and requires no mental shortcuts to reach a reasonable conclusion.

This is a pretty simple concept guys. If the wall is 27.3' long, then say it is. There's no "judgement required" in this.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Not sure what makes you think this, but if my industrial grade laser says a wall is 24.15' then I write down 24.15' on my sketch

Doesn't matter, it is false precision. Look it up. It's not my opinion. It is a math fact and anyone with a modicum of math knows it and sees it for what it is. Rounding numbers have to be in same units in comparison. And unless your comps are measured that way your are injecting a pretend accuracy. Your laser can measure in nanometers... It does not matter. And anyone with math background will recognize it and realize your math is suspect...at least to a point of amusement. You don't apply SF adjustments in hundredth or tenths of foot do you?

As a practical matter, do you measure at the foundation? The siding? The corner trim? We cannot be that good but go ahead and fool yourself. But if you want to use that software shortcut, then your choice is limited to the practical...

 

[gringogigante]

Doesn't matter, it is false precision. Look it up. It's not my opinion. It is a math fact and anyone with a modicum of math knows it and sees it for what it is. Rounding numbers have to be in same units in comparison. And unless your comps are measured that way your are injecting a pretend accuracy. Your laser can measure in nanometers... It does not matter. And anyone with math background will recognize it and realize your math is suspect...at least to a point of amusement. You don't apply SF adjustments in hundredth or tenths of foot do you?

As a practical matter, do you measure at the foundation? The siding? The corner trim? We cannot be that good but go ahead and fool yourself. But if you want to use that software shortcut, then your choice is limited to the practical...

It does indeed matter because it is not false precision. And I did look it up. I didn't find any "math fact". What i DID find was, once again, a defined standard that tells us how to measure a house. Ansi Z765 clearly states, "Measure the exterior of the house to the nearest inch or tenth of an inch. Measure from the exterior face of the walls. Include any features that are on the same level as the floor, such as chimneys and bay windows. Do not include the thickness of any corner trim pieces or greenhouse windows that don’t have a corresponding floor level. "

I have a math background (economics and accounting), and your pretzel logic does not add up. You're creating a solution for a "math" problem that doesn't exist for a method of measuring that is less accurate than another method.

I also have an appraisal background and do a great deal of review work. Lenders are always confounded by inaccuracies, vagary, and laziness. It always leads to a USPAP complaint or question because generalizing violates our requirement to produce a report that "is not misleading".

You've built an argument in your mind to justify an irrelevant method. You've replaced logic with stubbornness. There is a standard out there that helps us be better appraisers. Our lending institutions use it, and they require us to use it.....what is the point of even discussing anything past that?

Keep in mind....I didn't create this method or standard. I simply follow it because its required and has the added benefit of being more accurate.

BUT, I'd be happy to look at any source or references you have that would explain how we should purposefully NOT give our intended users what they ask for.

 

[Dublin ohio]

It does indeed matter because it is not false precision

You must have had a lot of sleepless nights prior to laser measuring. Would almost be impossible to guarantee accuracy to 1/10 of an inch using a tape measure. Tape sag and parallax come to mind.

violates our requirement to produce a report that "is not misleading".

So using your preferred degree of accuracy for the subject and comparing it to a comparable sale that was not measured to the same degree of accuracy would not be misleading?