Black couple settle lawsuit as home value at $500k below real price

[ucbruin]

Do I need to spell it out for you? There's no workfile requirement under our professional standards unless there's an assignment. Among other expectations which don't exist and which therefore cannot be met or not-met.

If you want to get uppity about imposing expectations on your peers which don't apply then at least do so knowing you're arguing an opinion that is unsupported in our professional standards.

Uppity....
I guess this is the correct thread for you to use uppity....

Because you are the forum's wordsmith I realize you chose your word with precision and purposefully....

Look at you trying to provoke....

You could have just responded "No" to my question....
So I guess my post has gotten into your head....

 

[George Hatch]

I live to serve.

BTW, your personal attack on my character is completely non-responsive to the tangent that you raised. You tried to impugn the conduct of others but didn't have what it takes to defend your position so instead you lash out at me for using a term that apparently triggered you.

 

[ucbruin]

I live to serve.

BTW, your personal attack on my character is completely non-responsive to the tangent that you raised. You tried to impugn the conduct of others but didn't have what it takes to defend your position so instead you lash out at me for using a term that apparently triggered you.

A wise forumite once said....
"Like results in like"....

Don't cry when it hurts....

 

[RCA]

By the time you have a sales history for the neighborhood that looks like this, coupled with the complete lack of SFR sales in the neighborhood over the previous 12 months it's going to be impossible to support on the factual basis an allegation that the property was undervalued at $970k, let alone undervalued by bypassing more similar for less similar or reconciling too low due to personal bias.

That doesn't mean I think I would have valued that property at that amount and it doesn't mean that I assume the original appraisal was sufficiently well developed or reported. When the lender reviewed it, a reviewer would have needed a reason to disagree with that original value conclusion and would also have needed the data/analysis to support that reason. Which in lieu of directly comparable sales will invariably go back to opinions on locations at the very least.

I've had phone conversations with a half dozen appraisers on this case and have seen comments from at least one local appraiser who said they'd probably have gone higher for this house at this time, like $1M to $1.1M. Which that's been the opinion of virtually everyone I've spoken to on the verbal basis who has expressed an opinion of the value. With that said, we all have the benefit of knowing what happened in the market since 12/2020 so it's arguably easier to fit this value in that extended timeframe - which the original appraiser would have been wholly unable to do.

Of course, a borrower who's adding $400k in costs isn't going to be any happier with a $1.1M value than a $970k value so they still would have complained.

Of course, the question is whether $400K of repair work and upgrades were really done, whether the contractors were licensed (although the owner could have done much of the work as an owner-builder), whether there were permits and whether upgrades passed final inspections. I only see minor permits on the property on BuildFax.com, maybe $3K in work, since 2015.

 

[Elliott]

Wiki not biased enough, the smarter Chat AI kid in class says:

"Q: What is Marin City, CA like?

Chat GPT: Marin City is a small unincorporated community located in Marin County, California, just north of the Golden Gate Bridge. It is situated on the eastern shore of Richardson Bay, and bordered by the cities of Sausalito to the south and Mill Valley to the north.
Marin City is known for its history as a former military housing community during World War II, and as a vibrant hub of African American culture in the Bay Area. Today, it is home to a diverse community of residents, many of whom are low-income or working-class.
The community has a mix of residential and commercial areas, with several shopping centers, restaurants, and other amenities. Marin City also has a public library, a community center, and several parks and recreational areas, including the Marin City Athletic Field and the Marin Headlands National Park.
While Marin City has faced challenges related to poverty and crime in the past, efforts have been made in recent years to revitalize the community and improve the quality of life for its residents.


Q: What is Sausalito, CA like?

ChatGPT: Sausalito is a picturesque waterfront city located in Marin County, California, just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco. It is known for its scenic views, Mediterranean climate, and thriving arts community.
Sausalito's charming downtown area is filled with a mix of boutique shops, art galleries, restaurants, and cafes. The city has a rich cultural history, and visitors can explore a number of historic landmarks and museums, including the Bay Model Visitor Center and the Sausalito Historical Society.
The waterfront is a major attraction in Sausalito, and visitors can enjoy a range of activities on the water, such as sailing, kayaking, and paddleboarding. There are also several public parks and beaches in the area, including the Marin Headlands National Park and the Sausalito Bayfront Park.
Sausalito has a vibrant arts scene, with many galleries and studios showcasing the work of local artists. The city is also home to several annual events, including the Sausalito Art Festival, which attracts artists and visitors from around the world."
While Sausalito is known for its affluence, it is also home to a diverse community of residents, ranging from artists and musicians to business professionals and retirees. The city has a laid-back, bohemian vibe that is reminiscent of its history as a hub for artists and writers in the 1960s.

 

[George Hatch]

A wise forumite once said....
"Like results in like"....

Don't cry when it hurts....

Still not responsive to the tangent you raised. Not an argument. Do you have anything meaningful to add to that discussion or not?

 

[George Hatch]

Of course, the question is whether $400K of repair work and upgrades were really done, whether the contractors were licensed (although the owner could have done much of the work as an owner-builder), whether there were permits and whether upgrades passed final inspections. I only see minor permits on the property on BuildFax.com, maybe $3K in work, since 2015.

If cost /= value then it doesn't really matter how much they spent. With that said, I highly doubt Marin County would tolerate any unpermitted work. The public records already reflect the larger GLA so that's usually an indication to the legitimacy thereof. Subject to the exception to the rule, of course.

If we were doing a 2055 on this property then we would work off the assumption the public records entry was significantly correct. I'm sure the buyers and brokers in the market would do the same.

This property wouldn't have been any easier to appraise in its original GLA than in the larger size. The primary difficulty with any appraisal being performed in that neighborhood in 12/2020 remains the same - no recent sales.

 

[RCA]

Wiki not biased enough, the smarter Chat AI kid in class says:

"Q: What is Marin City, CA like?

Chat GPT: Marin City is a small unincorporated community located in Marin County, California, just north of the Golden Gate Bridge. It is situated on the eastern shore of Richardson Bay, and bordered by the cities of Sausalito to the south and Mill Valley to the north.
Marin City is known for its history as a former military housing community during World War II, and as a vibrant hub of African American culture in the Bay Area. Today, it is home to a diverse community of residents, many of whom are low-income or working-class.
The community has a mix of residential and commercial areas, with several shopping centers, restaurants, and other amenities. Marin City also has a public library, a community center, and several parks and recreational areas, including the Marin City Athletic Field and the Marin Headlands National Park.
While Marin City has faced challenges related to poverty and crime in the past, efforts have been made in recent years to revitalize the community and improve the quality of life for its residents.


Q: What is Sausalito, CA like?

ChatGPT: Sausalito is a picturesque waterfront city located in Marin County, California, just across the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco. It is known for its scenic views, Mediterranean climate, and thriving arts community.
Sausalito's charming downtown area is filled with a mix of boutique shops, art galleries, restaurants, and cafes. The city has a rich cultural history, and visitors can explore a number of historic landmarks and museums, including the Bay Model Visitor Center and the Sausalito Historical Society.
The waterfront is a major attraction in Sausalito, and visitors can enjoy a range of activities on the water, such as sailing, kayaking, and paddleboarding. There are also several public parks and beaches in the area, including the Marin Headlands National Park and the Sausalito Bayfront Park.
Sausalito has a vibrant arts scene, with many galleries and studios showcasing the work of local artists. The city is also home to several annual events, including the Sausalito Art Festival, which attracts artists and visitors from around the world."
While Sausalito is known for its affluence, it is also home to a diverse community of residents, ranging from artists and musicians to business professionals and retirees. The city has a laid-back, bohemian vibe that is reminiscent of its history as a hub for artists and writers in the 1960s.

Using CahteGpt-4:
Me: What can you tell me about affordable housing in Marin City, CA?

ChatGpt-4 (aka Plus):
Affordable housing has been a challenge in Marin City, as well as in the larger Marin County and the San Francisco Bay Area. As one of the wealthiest counties in California, Marin County has experienced a high cost of living, with housing prices and rents being particularly steep. This has made it difficult for lower-income residents to find affordable housing options.
In response to this issue, various initiatives have been undertaken to provide affordable housing in Marin City and the broader county. Non-profit organizations, local government agencies, and community groups have been working together to develop and maintain affordable housing units for low-income families, seniors, and individuals with disabilities.

One example of an affordable housing development in Marin City is the Marin City USA complex, which was constructed in the early 1990s. This development provides low-income families with housing options that are more reasonably priced compared to the overall market in the area.

Additionally, the Marin Housing Authority plays a significant role in managing and administering affordable housing programs in Marin County, including Marin City. They offer rental assistance through programs like Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers and manage public housing properties.

However, despite these efforts, the demand for affordable housing in Marin City and the broader county often exceeds the available supply. Addressing this challenge requires continued collaboration between various stakeholders, including local governments, non-profit organizations, and community groups, to develop more affordable housing options and support policies that promote affordable housing development.

Me: Would this low-income housing affect general real estate prices for homes in Marin City?

ChatGpt-4 (aka Plus):

Low-income housing can have an impact on the general real estate prices for homes in an area, including Marin City. The presence of low-income housing, public housing developments, or affordable housing complexes can sometimes lead to lower property values in the surrounding neighborhoods. This is often due to perceptions of higher crime rates, lower-quality schools, or reduced desirability associated with areas that have a higher concentration of low-income housing.

However, it's important to note that the relationship between low-income housing and real estate prices can be complex and influenced by various factors, such as the overall housing market, economic conditions, and local policies.

In some cases, affordable housing initiatives and community development efforts can have a positive impact on real estate prices by helping to revitalize neighborhoods, improve the quality of life for residents, and attract new investment. In Marin City, there have been ongoing efforts to address socioeconomic challenges and improve the community, which could contribute to stabilizing or even increasing property values over time.

To get an accurate understanding of the current real estate prices in Marin City, it is best to consult local real estate agents, listings, or other up-to-date sources for the most recent market information.

 

[Elliott]

"Q: I'm thinking of moving to Marin County. Do you think I should buy a house in Marin City, CA or Sausalito, CA.

Chat GPT: Deciding between Marin City and Sausalito depends on a number of factors, including your personal preferences, lifestyle, and budget. Here are some factors you may want to consider:

1. Cost: Sausalito is generally more expensive than Marin City, with higher home prices and rental rates. If cost is a major consideration for you, Marin City may be a more affordable option.
2. Lifestyle: Sausalito has a bustling downtown area with plenty of shops, restaurants, and entertainment options, as well as a strong arts community. If you enjoy an urban lifestyle with lots of cultural amenities, Sausalito may be a better fit for you. On the other hand, if you prefer a quieter, more residential area, Marin City may be a better fit.
3. Commute: If you work in San Francisco or another nearby city, you may want to consider the commute times from each location. Sausalito is closer to San Francisco and may offer a shorter commute time, but traffic can be heavy during peak hours.
4. Scenery: Both Marin City and Sausalito offer beautiful scenery and access to outdoor recreation opportunities, but they have different types of views. Marin City is situated on Richardson Bay and has views of the water and hills, while Sausalito has views of the San Francisco Bay and the Golden Gate Bridge.

Ultimately, the decision of where to buy a house in Marin County is a personal one that depends on your individual needs and preferences. It may be helpful to visit both areas and explore the neighborhoods before making a decision."
...................

I'm beginning to think that ChatGPT doesn't think these are comparable neighborhoods and the only thing I know about the area is Linda Ronstadt did a concert and album called "Sausalito '73."

 

[ucbruin]

Still not responsive to the tangent you raised. Not an argument. Do you have anything meaningful to add to that discussion or not?

I was curious....