Builder raises prices, no comps, no resales

[J Grant]

It's been years and I'm not going to go hunting for the discussions we had 15 years ago about using REOs as comps when that's what prevails. You were wrong about that then and you are wrong now. Among other things in the here and now you've been wrong about.

Suffice it to say we aren't supposed to be protecting our lenders from their decision making or protecting the borrowers from their decision making. Our role is to provide transparency and information so these parties can - if they so desire - make more informed choices. We're responsible for what we do, not what they do.

George, you have completely reversed what I wrote about REO's as comps !! Which is really annoying because for years, I argued with Res Guy and others that REO coms did NOT have to be used for an REO as subject. So explain what you mean above if you meant something else. I would appraise, if warranted an REO as subject for higher $ than mover an artificially low CS price, the same idiots who went around hitting inflated values in the bubble then did a 180 and opined deflated values in the crash.

 

[J Grant]

Suffice it to say we aren't supposed to be protecting our lenders from their decision making or protecting the borrowers from their decision making. Our role is to provide transparency and information so these parties can - if they so desire - make more informed choices. We're responsible for what we do, not what they do.

Our role is to provide MV opinions ( typically ) for lender work. That's all I say in my posts, if you re read them. The point is, these parties can not make a more informed choice, if appraisers manipulated results to hit a desired target be that high or low

 

[George Hatch]

As a group the market is never wrong whether the appraisers think these trends to be wise or foolish.

Really? The market as a group can be very wrong, look at all the defaults and losses in the bubble and in other market cycles.

LOL - you continue to provide examples of exactly what I was talking about. So don't even bother saying you never do it.

 

[J Grant]

LOL - you continue to provide examples of exactly what I was talking about. So don't even bother saying you never do it.

You keep alleging things but when i ask you to provide it from actual posts I made, you can't or won't-, so how about we both drop it - normally we have pretty civil debates

Back to the topic, a herd movement does not mean the market is "right". RE markets and stock markets in different cycles can have winners or losers. Just because a big mass of people made the same mistake does not mean they were "right".

An appraiser is supposed to opine MV one transaction at a time. The reality is, however appraiser perform their professional role, their role in the financing chain will have an impact on prices,. I don't know what your perspective is as you say you personally do no lender work,/GSE appraisals, yet you write frequently about them. Which is fine, as your extensive knowledge about appraising can apply to lending GSE work, but perhaps not doing it personally you have a false idea there is a lot of appraisers causing a bottle neck on prices when the reverse is true, most appraisers go the extra mile or beyond, so any concern about the efforts on this board to remind we are supposed to opine for MV rather than chase a target .the whole RE food chain exists to pressure around price, so to dump on appraisers for doing their job correctly ? Look at all the pressure around a price or price direction, from the RE agent who wants a commission to lender who wants to close to AMC looking to keep the lender happy to the buyer who wants to leverage rather than use their own funds. The appraiser has a lonely role to simply do their job to develop a OMV ,rather than chase a price or a price direction desired.

I don't know where your perspective comes from but mine comes from by now 24 years of doing GSE work and doing hundreds of field reviews over the years, and that is most of what I did in the years following the crash. And I can tell you that the number hitting, value inflating tactics some appraisers use are just as prevalent if not more so in refinance purpose than when a SC contract is present, so it is really about that affect on both appraisals and on the market.

 

[J Grant]

BTW, I am happy to appraiser higher than a SC price when warranted or on the high side of value on a refi if supported. And on some of the field reviews I disagreed with their OA value and my opinion of mv was HIGHER Than theirs ( did not happen often but it did happen )

I am against "manipulated /poorly supported/pushed values" - of any direction =, its just that more often in lender work, we see it happen in the agenda of high .
I sold RE for five years prior to appraising (which was a big help imo ) so I have a pretty good idea of that end of the spectrum.

It is troubling to see false accusations /assumptions when it is mentioned a OMV is lower than a SC price ... - " the appraiser ignored the market, the appraiser ignored the contract , the appraiser thinks they are god, the appraiser thinks they are smarter than the market, how can they be lower by X percent because nobody is that good " - did I leave any out?