C4 VS C5

[robertwells]

I appraised a home in 2015 and my notes at the time show C4 minus to C5 (I employed C4)....
I appraised the same home last week and the roof was replaced in 2016 (the only update since 2015)....

Other than the roof the home is only 5 years older....
My gut says C5 now....
But UAD definition seems to say C4 because the mechanics appear to function adequately....

Damn, I guess C4 again....

Timely topic for me today... Just inspected a 43 year old home and I'm going back and forth between c4 and C5 due to the c4 definition discussing just "minimal" repair... The subject has half the house with carpeting which is badly soiled and stained in many areas, tile kitchen floors with cracking throughout, torn window screens, top to bottom of wood siding on chimney reflects areas of damage and rot and kitchen cabinets original and appear barely functioning as far as doors closing and such and are dirty....The roof was replaced about 13 years ago and flooring in half the house updated last year...Anyone want to chime in an opinion? Thanks

 

[J Grant]

Timely topic for me today... Just inspected a 43 year old home and I'm going back and forth between c4 and C5 due to the c4 definition discussing just "minimal" repair... The subject has half the house with carpeting which is badly soiled and stained in many areas, tile kitchen floors with cracking throughout, torn window screens, top to bottom of wood siding on chimney reflects areas of damage and rot and kitchen cabinets original and appear barely functioning as far as doors closing and such and are dirty....The roof was replaced about 13 years ago and flooring in half the house updated last year...Anyone want to chime in an opinion? Thanks

That's a tough one...though on balance imo the combo of so many repair areas/deffer ed maintenance tips the scale to a C 5 despite a decent roof - see what others say,

 

[Flakey]

C5. New roof is lipstick on a pig.

 

[norapp]

I feel your pain. I hate C5 homes and in reality have only appraised a few and most were unoccupied. Last one I did that was owner occupied the lender made me go back two additional times as the owners attempted to cover up some of the lesser problems. I say cover up because that was what they did. Put a coat of paint over water damaged warped ceiling/walls and a few other misguided things. It was all extremely awkward as they stared me down with menacing looks. The whole house was a routine maintenance nightmare with the biggest problem being the water marks all over the second level ceiling and walls. It was so bad that even if they had fixed the leaks my gut was saying there is a lot of damage under that sheetrock. The bank pressured me to change my rating but I did not. I read and reread the C4 and C5 descriptions. There was nothing in this house that fit the C4 description.

 

[J Grant]

I feel your pain. I hate C5 homes and in reality have only appraised a few and most were unoccupied. Last one I did that was owner occupied the lender made me go back two additional times as the owners attempted to cover up some of the lesser problems. I say cover up because that was what they did. Put a coat of paint over water damaged warped ceiling/walls and a few other misguided things. It was all extremely awkward as they stared me down with menacing looks. The whole house was a routine maintenance nightmare with the biggest problem being the water marks all over the second level ceiling and walls. It was so bad that even if they had fixed the leaks my gut was saying there is a lot of damage under that sheetrock. The bank pressured me to change my rating but I did not. I read and reread the C4 and C5 descriptions. There was nothing in this house that fit the C4 description.

Things have not changed much aka lender pressure, they still try to exert it and it is not always about value. What a wonderful business we are in, all these years, the HVCC, the AMC's taking a huge cut if lender uses them, and still the same old pressure, just a bit more muted. Good for you for standing ground - some of these homeowners are a bit much, they want the loan but do not want to minimal maintenance/care of their own house.

 

[J Grant]

Timely topic for me today... Just inspected a 43 year old home and I'm going back and forth between c4 and C5 due to the c4 definition discussing just "minimal" repair... The subject has half the house with carpeting which is badly soiled and stained in many areas, tile kitchen floors with cracking throughout, torn window screens, top to bottom of wood siding on chimney reflects areas of damage and rot and kitchen cabinets original and appear barely functioning as far as doors closing and such and are dirty....The roof was replaced about 13 years ago and flooring in half the house updated last year...Anyone want to chime in an opinion? Thanks

A 13 year old roof is just a roof, mid life roof, a house is expected to have a functioning roof so the roof is a neutral factor. The only updating is partial cosmetic , floors in one section. Which leaves the laundry list of repairs which pretty much fits C 5 though a less dire C 5 -- Is kitchen cabinets as a repair item though their age and condition help tip to the C 5 rating, but soiled carpet can be a health issue /need replace and wood rot/damage is a repair issue, cracked kitchen floors is that cosmetic or repair? It's hard to tell when the bar is make C 5 subject to bring it to C 4, because a C 4 house would not have cracked kitchen floors ...that is where judgement calls come in and it becomes harder for us to determine.

 

[glenn walker]

Timely topic for me today... Just inspected a 43 year old home and I'm going back and forth between c4 and C5 due to the c4 definition discussing just "minimal" repair... The subject has half the house with carpeting which is badly soiled and stained in many areas, tile kitchen floors with cracking throughout, torn window screens, top to bottom of wood siding on chimney reflects areas of damage and rot and kitchen cabinets original and appear barely functioning as far as doors closing and such and are dirty....The roof was replaced about 13 years ago and flooring in half the house updated last year...Anyone want to chime in an opinion? Thanks

C-4 -- A real C-5 normally has an-original or bad roof and extensive costly repairs, floor coverings are cosmetic in nature and have a short life.

 

[J Grant]

C-4 -- A real C-5 normally has an-original or bad roof and extensive costly repairs, floor coverings are cosmetic in nature and have a short life.

True it is a borderline case - but if it is marked as C 4, then wouldn't it be C 4 subject to wood rot repair or inspection?
That sounds like the "real" repair item, the rest just ugly/cosmetic -

It would be a low end C 4 even if wood rot fixed , that is the problems with the ratings -I've been in C 4 houses that are pleasant, clean, functional, but they meet the C 4 because roof is older and other systems are older too with no recent replacements

 

[robertwells]

True it is a borderline case - but if it is marked as C 4, then wouldn't it be C 4 subject to wood rot repair or inspection?
That sounds like the "real" repair item, the rest just ugly/cosmetic -

It would be a low end C 4 even if wood rot fixed , that is the problems with the ratings -I've been in C 4 houses that are pleasant, clean, functional, but they meet the C 4 because roof is older and other systems are older too with no recent replacements

Yes, the language in the C4 rating, being a property with "minor deferred maintenance" and "requires only minimal repairs" makes it harder to go this route due to the specific definitions...

 

[ucbruin]

Yes, the language in the C4 rating, being a property with "minor deferred maintenance" and "requires only minimal repairs" makes it harder to go this route due to the specific definitions...

Agreed....