C5 Condition Rating

[J Grant]

"TMD-If you think that a hole in the roof that allows water into the structure is not something that affects soundness and structural integrity, then you should not be doing GSE-related appraisals.

I suggest that you also read sec. B4-1.2-03 of the Fannie Mae Selling Guide, which states, among other things, that if the home has an active roof leak (and please don't try to argue that a hole in the roof is not an active roof leak), then the appraisal must be completed "subject to" repairs - Note, that Fannie's Selling Guide specifically lists this as an issue that affects the safety, soundness or structural integrity of the property."


Could you please refrain from the drama queen histrionics ? I never said a roof leak does not need repair, or that a hole in the roof can not be a C 6. Point out my post where I said a hole in the roof is not a C 6 ( I never said that ) Point out where I said a roof leak is not subject to repair ( I never said that)

What I did say in my post on this thread is that a small hole in the roof can be a C 5, and if not repaired, can become a C 6 in time. I have seen many minor roof leaks, limited to one area, that did not threaten the soundness and safety of the structure at date of inspection. If left untreated over time it will, but on inspection date, the damage is limited to the one small area. Labeling it C 5 still makes the appraisal subject to repair to bring it into C 4 condition ( unless client wants an as is value with no repairs made, which can be an assignment condition such as for an REO owned by client)

 

[J Grant]

C 5 The improvements feature obvious deferred maintenance and are in need of some significant repairs. Some building components need repairs, rehabilitation, or updating. The functional utility and overall livability are somewhat diminished due to condition, but the dwelling remains useable and functional as a residence.
Note: Some significant repairs are needed to the improvements due to the lack of adequate maintenance. It reflects a property in which many of its short-lived building components are at the end of or have exceeded their physical life expectancy, but remain functional.

One small roof leak seems to fit the above, it is a significant repair, - the functional utility and overall livability are somewhat diminished, and the dwelling remains usable and functional as a residence on date of inspection. The fact that if inot repaired it can turn into a C 6 condition has not happened yet. Rated a C 5, it is subject to repair to bring into C 4 condition

C6 The improvements have substantial damage or deferred maintenance with deficiencies or defects that are severe enough to affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the improvements. The improvements are in need of substantial repairs and rehabilitation, including many or most major components.
Note: Substantial repairs are needed to the improvements due to the lack of adequate maintenance or property damage. It reflects a property with conditions severe enough to affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the improvements.

A small roof leak in one area is not yet C 6 on inspection date, the safety, soundness or structural integrity is not yet affected by the confined to one small area roof leak. Labeling it C 6 accomplishes the same thing as labeling it C 5 ( subject to repair to C 4 condition ) Both accomplish the same thing- making report subject to repair. Multiple or larger roof leaks of course would be C 6.

 

[Sid Holderly]

I agree with residential guy & j grant. A few shingles represent general maintenance, not a needed roof rehab. A hole poked through by a branch is not C6 unless it has been there a long time without repair. Depends on the point in time it is found. Just like floor coverings are general maintenance and not structure.

 

[Carnivore]

C6 The improvements have substantial damage OR deferred maintenance with deficiencies or defects that are severe enough to affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the improvements.

OR is the operative word(s). The statement does not use the word 'AND' anywhere.

C6 ...OR deferred maintenance with deficiencies or defects that are severe enough to affect the safety, soundness, or structural integrity of the improvements.

So in my view is the 'hole in roof' is severe enough to affect the safety, soundness or integrity of the improvements. The severity in this case is not determined by size or cost of repair, No, the severity is ANY Hole. IMO

 

[timd354]

What I did say in my post on this thread is that a small hole in the roof can be a C 5, and if not repaired, can become a C 6 in time. I have seen many minor roof leaks, limited to one area, that did not threaten the soundness and safety of the structure at date of inspection. If left untreated over time it will, but on inspection date, the damage is limited to the one small area. Labeling it C 5 still makes the appraisal subject to repair to bring it into C 4 condition ( unless client wants an as is value with no repairs made, which can be an assignment condition such as for an REO owned by client)

No, a hole in the roof cannot be a C5. Any hole in the roof absolutely negatively affects the soundness of the property and as such automatically requires the property to be labelled in C6 condition if the appraisal is completed "as-is" (which it typically would not be for a mortgage transaction). It is really mind-boggling that someone, especially an experienced appraiser, would argue that a hole in the roof does not affect the soundness of the property as if water entering the property every time it rains is somehow not an issue.

 

[timd354]

So in my view is the 'hole in roof' is severe enough to affect the safety, soundness or integrity of the improvements. The severity in this case is not determined by size or cost of repair, No, the severity is ANY Hole. IMO

Of course any hole in the roof that allows water to leak into the home is severe enough to affect safety, soundness or integrity of the improvements, that is just common sense.

 

[J Grant]

No, a hole in the roof cannot be a C5. Any hole in the roof absolutely negatively affects the soundness of the property and as such automatically requires the property to be labelled in C6 condition if the appraisal is completed "as-is" (which it typically would not be for a mortgage transaction). It is really mind-boggling that someone, especially an experienced appraiser, would argue that a hole in the roof does not affect the soundness of the property as if water entering the property every time it rains is somehow not an issue.

I guess you cant' help yourself. Instead of just stating your case, you throw in drama queen statements ( that are false) that I am arguing a hole in the roof does not affect soundness of the property. What I said was, if on inspection date, the hole is small, it has not YET affected the soundness of a property. It is a condition requiring repair. A small hole in the roof can indeed only affect one small area of a home and that can continue to be limited to that area for many years, without affecting the soundness of the property. Which is why others here ( not just me ) see it as a C 5. Either way , we recognize that it is a repair condition and the report is made subject to repair to bring it to C 4,. Which means you might zip it with drama queen statements about mind boggling if possible for you to refrain from doing so in your posts. ( doubtful, you stop for a few threads and go back to it).

 

[Mr Rex]

It prolly depends on what size pot you have to put under the hole when it rains.

 

[J Grant]

"TMD- I suggest that you also read sec. B4-1.2-03 of the Fannie Mae Selling Guide, which states, among other things, that if the home has an active roof leak (and please don't try to argue that a hole in the roof is not an active roof leak), then the appraisal must be completed "subject to" repairs - "

Noting the active roof leak as a C 5 satisfies the Fannie Mae selling guide as completed subject to repairs. Again, that would be for the leak at an early stage where it is affecting only a limited area, often showing as dampness or a water stain. Once it gets beyond that, it would be C 6.

 

[timd354]

that I am arguing a hole in the roof does not affect soundness of the property. What I said was, if on inspection date, the hole is small, it has not YET affected the soundness of a property.).

I understand what you arguing, but your argument is absurd. A home with a hole in the roof that allows water to enter into the structure every time it rains is not sound, period & end of story.