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CA Class action lawsuit re: AMC undisclosed fees?

I might be wrong on this one, but as I understand it:

The idea that subject property attributes are not part of the confidential information stems from the issue of appraisers becoming aware of the subject's attributes in one assignment and having use for that information in another assignment either on their own or in exchanging that info with their peers. The facts about a property's attributes don't become a secret just because an appraiser became informed of them.​

If someone knows differently then that would be a good topic of discussion.

I suppose the argument could be made that if the intellectual property in an appraisal consists of the appraiser's analyses, opinions and conclusions in a specific assignment then the appraiser doesn't control them anyway - their client does. Which if their client has the right of distribution that the appraiser acknowledged in the GSE cert that would mean the client is the party with the control. Not the appraiser.

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Public records doesn't show the building area or they get the lot area incorrect. Appraiser comes along and measures. Does the appraiser own the numerical expression of that building or lot area, or does that fact simply exist on its own regardless of who sees it? If the County Assessor gets the number correct does the county own that number in the form of intellectual property of does the truth of that number exist on its own regardless of who sees it?

My opinion is $500,000
The building area is 1,200sf

One can be considered an opinion and not a fact; the other can be considered a (possible) fact and not an opinion.

Who is doing what?
 
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I might be wrong on this one, but as I understand it:

The idea that subject property attributes are not part of the confidential information stems from the issue of appraisers becoming aware of the subject's attributes in one assignment and having use for that information in another assignment. The facts about a property's attributes don't become a secret just because an appraiser became informed of them.

If someone knows differently then that would be a good topic of discussion.

I suppose the argument could be made that if the intellectual property in an appraisal consists of the appraiser's analyses, opinions and conclusions then the appraiser doesn't control them anyway - their client does. Which if their client has the right of distribution that the appraiser acknowledged in their cert that would mean the client is the party with the control. Not the appraiser.
I don't think you are barking up right tree. There are some heavy hitters going after commingling of amccs fees and appraisal fees.

I'll mention a few.

1. Appraisers
2. Consumers
3. NAR
4. REEVA, but they agree on separation of fees on truth in lending disclosures with certain conditions.
5. CFPB most likely
6. Appraisal organizations like Appraisal Institute, the American Society of Appraisers, the American Society of Farm Mangers and Rural Appraisers.
7. Morgan and Morgan law firm
8. Some of the largest E&O insurance companies in the business.

Did I leave someone out? Please mention them if I did.
 
Sorry, I may have left Federal Trade Commission out by accident.
 
Purchasing public data has been big business since i can remember. The Title insurance companies dominated it from the beginning of title insurance. They sold it on micro fiche to large real estate operators.

Later on companies like CMDC was
used by appraisers and they later sold appraisers--appraisal data to FNC and paid their members zero. NAR created Realtor.com and give Realtors nothing.

My point is nothing is new about data mining and selling it and the technology just speeded it up ten fold.

There is no lawsuit's these issues have been tried in courts many times.

Some old goofy appraisers thought they could copy right their appraisals like books or something and that failed. There is no solution we don't own or control the data we collect or use.
The goofy appraiser in this case established he owned the copyrights to his appraisal -- and the copyright violators agreed to pay him $50k in a stipulated judgment. But don't try that with a 1004.

Screenshot 2025-06-18 at 3.33.30 PM.png
 
In the Ballew appraiser case, it looks like he did a TON of work, not just stating the existing facts of the physical property, but likely exposing potential uses etc that it seems the defendants used in their marketing. Looks like he was breaking new ground there.

Facts of the physical existence of stuff on the subject property is not where the intellectual property issue comes into play for me.

I'm referring to the process of analysis, coming to certain conclusions by choosing certain comps and not others, in considering many facts in the marketplace, trends, competing properties' market impact, consideration of quality of upgrades or wear and tear. All those things impact the appraiser's opinion of value. It seems to me the value conclusion derived by the analysis of the subject, it's condition, views, potential to be used for a particular purpose (as in allowing horses, or being a good candidate for subdividing the land) are all components of the analysis. That analysis involves my brain. It may be for rent, but it's not for sale.
 
The goofy appraiser in this case established he owned the copyrights to his appraisal -- and the copyright violators agreed to pay him $50k in a stipulated judgment. But don't try that with a 1004.

View attachment 100957
Go to the copyright web site and you will find that copyright does not protect data or information. It protects how it is presnted. When the Alamode crew was pedaling copyright 20 years ago it was quietly proven a false assertion when a group went to the copyright office, obtained copies of reports with registered copyrights, and was allowed to sit there in the copyright office and extract data from those reports. Some of that data was even posted here to prove that it was done.
 
Well, I guess we're in line with a bunch of other professions to be partially phased out by AI. I expect with the high cost of a college degree, more universities and colleges will sell classes online to thousands of ppl at the same time who couldn't all fit into a physical classroom, and colleges will be paid well for that innovation, and instructors will teach many more people at a reduced per capita rate, perhaps making education more affordable. So any knowledge, intelligence, data product is AI-able. The physical jobs that many ppl shunned will likely be around for the foreseeable future, like mechanics, painters & drywallers, electricians, plumbers, carpenters. I would say cooks too, but I heard about a McDonalds in Australia with no human working there; everything is electronic & automated. Mmmmm... that sounds delicious! not.
 
I was checking CA regs re: AMCs to see if there was a time period requirement for AMCs to pay for the appraisals they order in CA. Nope. Loosey-goosey, they pay when they feel like it. Then:
I ran across multiple headlines about a California February 2025 class action lawsuit against AMCs bilking the public out of some $12,000,000,000 for non-disclosure and not breaking out AMC fees incl tech and other charges from the appraisal fee stated on the loan closing statements. One contention is that Borrowers think the appraisal fee reflects the work of expensive professionals. Another observation noted the results of this practice of non-disclosure is that appraisers are leaving the business because their income is heavily eroded and chipped away, and that might result in an actual shortage of appraisers in time of need. Imagine that. They're only a decade or so late. What are the odds something positive will happen with this? Could it be the Appraiser's version of the recent disconnection of buyer-agent/seller-agent real estate co-broke fees offered in MLS?
arcc-usa.org
https://arcc-usa.org › california-class-action-challenges-i...
Feb 20, 2025 — ... (AMCs). “Lenders bundle hidden AMC fees with the appraisal costs, leading to inflated charges that are never clearly disclosed to homebuyers.

What You Need to Know About Appraisal Management ...

Morgan & Morgan Lawyers
https://www.forthepeople.com › Blog Index
Jan 29, 2025 — Many buyers may not realize is that hidden fees, often linked to Appraisal Management Companies (AMCs), can significantly inflate their costs.
Feb 24, 2025 — The lawsuit contends that AMC middlemen misrepresent appraisal costs ... AMCs charged borrowers more than $12 billion in hidden fees ...

Investigation Launched into Appraisal Fees and ...

Note Servicing Center
https://noteservicingcenter.com › investigation-launche...
Feb 10, 2025 — Analysts in the mortgage industry have voiced concerns that AMCs may contribute to inflated appraisal fees by imposing additional layers of cost ...

AMC Fined Over C&R Fees

Working RE Magazine
https://www.workingre.com › AMC-fined-over-cr-fees
A $10,000 fine big friggin deal!!! They were taking in $465 per appraisal. Paying out $250 and then minus a “technology or service fee” They were hauling in ...
I don't know how it will iron out.
 
I know one thing. Me and Marion and Evincere wore Ms. Trice out on commingling of fees. We were a bad tag team. Joan stood little chance against us 3.

I hope this dude wins and CA gets a bunch of money.
 
JGrant has fought commingling of fees a long time on this forum.
 
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