Certified Residential vs Certified General

[Essexfenwick]

The point of licensing is to kick out dishonest or incompetent practicers. It's a bare minimum qualification. Need a designation or real estate masters degree for qualification branding.

 

[George Hatch]

One common complaint about the CGs is that many of them have no real experience with appraising 1-4s, and worse, are not taking those assignments as seriously as their regular work. That's always been a problem, too.

With that said, you can't do right when appraising a proposed SFR subdivision or condo project without also knowing how to appraise the individual units.

 

[gregb]

Where should CR's get experience analyzing expense statements for over 4 unit residential income properties? They are not going to get it from their 2-4 unit assignments?

 

[Lil Rhody]

I spent a week in Sevier County, Tennessee and once again ended up in the middle of a discussion about the Sneetches in this business with stars on their bellies versus those who don’t. (Kudos to Dr Seuss). There are CGs in Tennessee who jump up on a stump and preach that a CR must never do an appraisal of an AirBNB because of the complexity or commercial aspect that requires the advanced brain of a CG. The HBU of all residential properties in Sevier County (Pigeon Forge, Gatlinburg, etc) is likely AirBNB everywhere because the market is driven by tourism due to Dollywood and Gatlinburg proper, with all the resort amenities.

There’s 3-4 CGs in that county and 25-30 CRs. I know of CRs up there that dance circles around many CGs in ability and intelligence, and doing an appraisal of an AirBNB is no big deal for them because they know that industry inside and out. If they are able to complete standard income producing rentals, then why pick out the short terms as being outside their wheelhouse? He pointed to education and the law. He had 4 years of experience in the area, and one CR up there dwarfs him by decades of experience.

I’ve said this a hundred times. Since a big swath of CGs were brought in prior to degrees and proof of competency beyond the CRs, why do we have this star on the belly requirement? Shouldn’t competency always rule the day? I always thought appraisers should have one license, just like an attorney, with their competency and expertise being the driver of what they are able to appraise.

My argument was a funny one with that CG who debated me about this. He asked if I felt competent to do them, and I told him I wasn’t in an area like Sevierville and we don’t see that many in my coverage area. But I asked him if he was competent to do a barndo on 40 acres near the Tennessee River with a barn and a guest house, and he had never heard of such a thing of course. Competence and complexity changes from area to area.

I know there are CGs out here that will get bent out of shape in having this discussion, but the whole licensing process ought to be different in my view. Let competency rule, as it was intended in the first place. One license - various specialties.

The AQB requirement for a bachelor's degree needs to be removed and 4 years of appraisal industry specific experience should be allowed as an acceptable substitute. I can't be convinced that 4 years of partying at college and getting a liberal arts degree sets you up for success more so than being a full time certified residential appraiser for the same amount of time.

 

[Mark K]

Downtown businesses hit hard by property appraisals, Speaker Sexton calls for state review​

Downtown Nashville establishments are seeing property values jump by tens of millions.​

The question is...are these Assessor valuations or licensed appraiser valuations.

In this state, the 'workers' in the assessor's office that determine value like to call themselves appraisers but there's not one licensed or certified appraiser in the group in this county. They're 'assessor appraisers' who may or may not know jack sht about property valuation. Generally, they're friends or relatives of the elected appraiser. "The book says that an extra bathroom is worth $zzz and that's that." They're Level 1 or 2 or 3 "Assessor Appraisers". If their valuation approximates FMV, its purely coincidental.

 

[Mark K]

The point of licensing is to kick out dishonest or incompetent practicers.

LOL!!! And the point of elections is to get honest and competent representatives of the people.

 

[RCA]

One common complaint about the CGs is that many of them have no real experience with appraising 1-4s, and worse, are not taking those assignments as seriously as their regular work. That's always been a problem, too.

With that said, you can't do right when appraising a proposed SFR subdivision or condo project without also knowing how to appraise the individual units.

The highly experienced CGs I have worked with WILL NOT measure property, of if they do, they will let the tax record value overwrite whatever they think they have measured. They are terrible in that respect.

 

[Gobears81]

The highly experienced CGs I have worked with WILL NOT measure property, of if they do, they will let the tax record value overwrite whatever they think they have measured. They are terrible in that respect.

There is truth to that. I don't know why commercial appraisers are so averse to measuring.

 

[RCA]

There is truth to that. I don't know why commercial appraisers are so averse to measuring.

No doubt their high-end clients don't like having their presumptions about the size of their buildings questioned. The Chief Appraisers (or let's use the word Vice Presidents) seemed to go into convulsions at the thought of their MAIs doing measurements. You have to wonder what terrible experiences they have had in the past.

No doubt, the various BOMA Standard measuring services available are the ultimate authority; for example,

Building Measurement Services - As-Built Floor Plans, Scan-to-BIM and BOMA Area Analysis

As-Built Drawings, 3D Laser Scanning, Scan-to-BIM, and Area Analysis for Real Estate, Architecture, Engineering, and Construction.

www.xmeasures.com

The MAIs have distinctly bureaucratic minds; they do what they are asked to and no more. No sense of perfection here except to do what is expected, e.g., never offend high-end clients and cautious with all other clients .... You see them struggling into the night trying to make their numbers bridge the gap between reality and the client's wishes. Their business depends on it.

You see, the job of an appraiser is not what you think. No, it is a political job: Try to convince the client to be somewhat more reasonable, try to convince the reader of the report that your exceptions are justified based on your experience and nebulous reasoning, and so on. And it's an Artsy - I can't think of an appropriate word, although scam comes close. However, you'd be surprised; an excellent MAI can make what seemed impossible weeks ago seem flawless, given time and effort. And who is wrong, who is right, - see if you can tell.

One thing I notice in the vicinity of MAIs is that I am in the company of some very elite and clever white XXXXX magicians who know how to stay one step ahead with these complex calculations, often involving 10-20 or so Excel spreadsheets with their macros and formulas. They excel in their field. They are masters at their art. That they ARE. Making the Market Value match the Income Value match the Cost Value, making the Current Year MV not too much higher or lower than last year's, and so on.

 

[Gobears81]

No doubt their high-end clients don't like having their presumptions about the size of their buildings questioned. The Chief Appraisers (or let's use the word Vice Presidents) seemed to go into convulsions at the thought of their MAIs doing measurements. You have to wonder what terrible experiences they have had in the past.

No doubt, the various BOMA Standard measuring services available are the ultimate authority; for example,

Building Measurement Services - As-Built Floor Plans, Scan-to-BIM and BOMA Area Analysis

As-Built Drawings, 3D Laser Scanning, Scan-to-BIM, and Area Analysis for Real Estate, Architecture, Engineering, and Construction.

www.xmeasures.com

The MAIs have distinctly bureaucratic minds; they do what they are asked to and no more. No sense of perfection here except to do what is expected, e.g., never offend high-end clients and cautious with all other clients .... You see them struggling into the night trying to make their numbers bridge the gap between reality and the client's wishes. Their business depends on it.

You see, the job of an appraiser is not what you think. No, it is a political job: Try to convince the client to be somewhat more reasonable, try to convince the reader of the report that your exceptions are justified based on your experience and nebulous reasoning, and so on. And it's an Artsy - I can't think of an appropriate word, although scam comes close. However, you'd be surprised; an excellent MAI can make what seemed impossible weeks ago seem flawless, given time and effort. And who is wrong, who is right, - see if you can tell.

One thing I notice in the vicinity of MAIs is that I am in the company of some very elite and clever white magicians who know how to stay one step ahead with these complex calculations, often involving 10-20 or so Excel spreadsheets with their macros and formulas. They excel in their field. They are masters at their art. That they ARE. Making the Market Value match the Income Value match the Cost Value, making the Current Year MV not too much higher or lower than last year's, and so on.

FWIW, I am almost solely a commercial appraiser and an MAI I do measure my properties, though.

I've seen enough bad work from all types of appraisers - from trainees to CRs to CGs and MAIs - to not attempt to defend any appraisers except myself. I recall discussing with an MAI (who used to post on AF fairly frequently) that said that if two approaches are more than 10% apart, something has gone wrong. That could be true for some properties and in more active markets, but in my market, there are many types of properties where that 10% range between approaches cannot be done, unless the appraiser does decide to force the numbers. I have completed appraisals with 15% - 20% ranges between the approaches - not ideal, but that is what the market is suggesting and sometimes that does, in itself, justifiably cause one to revisit the other approaches. That isn't being a clever magician, but digging deeper into the numbers and finding that the initial path might not be the correct one.

I'm a big believer that you end up with the types of clients that suit your style. I've heard others say that appraising is a political job, and maybe it is to them. They will attract a greater portion of clients that pick up the phone or send emails to work the appraisers over on the values. But bias isn't exclusive to the MAI realm.