Cistern ?

[Charlotte Dixon]

Ben.....I don't do FHA appraisals, so I probably should not have jumped in.

I do have experience with the V.A., your favorite government entity, and that is what I was referring to.

Cheers!

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Oh,,those guys...the one's that don't follow the HUD handbook for MPS...

Yep, I got yelled at once by a guy in Cleveland for wanting to reject a POS property under defective construction conditions and was told flat out no. I asked him if they followed FHA MPS like they were supposed to and they weren't impressed. I was even told not to require an engineer to examine the property but a contractor.

I really felt bad about putting the vet into that property but hey, he has lot's of certifications from contractor's to look at...along with 2x4 and 2x6 floor joists set 24" oc...

Ben

 

[Don Clark]

B) Ben,

I have been doing FHA appraisals a long time, even before lender select. As a matter of fact when lender select went into operation I was at a meeting with FHA representatives and a group of over 200 appraisers who wanted to do FHA work. Appraisers kept asking "what about this, what about that" and finally the FHA rep gave them the same advice I have given here. Nowhere did I imply that anything be ignored. You can recommend all day long, write up cost to cure, and it is still up to the DEU to accept or reject all that. I know, that is what I do and many times the DEU comes back with only a minimal amount of what I have recommended to be done that actually has to be done. An appraiser is not the final decision maker on whether a property meets MPS or not. Same with VA. If VAwant's to accept or reject what I have recommended that is their perogative.

 

[Thomas Fiehler]

How about this scene. The cistern is a positive feature when selling a house. Occasionally I will see a property with a cistern/well plus city water. The owners like being able to water the yard, wash cars, etc. without having to pay for the water. As long as the cistern has an adequate cover so kids don't fall in, I don't see a problem with it. Just my .02 worth. h34r: h34r: h34r:

 

[liznindy]

The cistern is located very near the house.

For clarification, I am not the appraiser on this property. I am the buyer's agent.

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Don,

The FHA appraiser is the final decision maker as to whether the property meets MPS or not...that's why you state in the report that the property meets MPS or will meet MPS after the repairs are completed. And that's what you ensure when you "clear" each repair condition on the CIR. The DEU does not make that MPS statement, the appraiser does. The DEU can waive unnecessary repairs called for by the appraiser above and beyond MPS but can not waive MPS required repairs....the DEU can also add repair items to the appraiser's list, if their individual lending institution has such requirements.

Got me on your repair items, maybe you're adding repairs that are above and beyond FHA MPS and the DEU is modifying them. I've never had an underwriter change any of my repair items or call me to discuss them. Nor would I sign off on a DEU modified repair that did not meet MPS on the CIR.

Even when the appraiser does a 203K, they have to review the consultant's proposal to ensure that the property will meet MPS. If the consultant's report is MPS deficient, it is the appraiser's responsibilty, not the DEU, to have the consultant's report modified to meet MPS. So the appraiser is responsible for MPS repairs and has the final say on whether or not the subject meets MPS.

FYI and in response to your appraisal career statement....I'm 51 and I've been doing FHA's since 1980..way before lender select so I'm not a newcomer to FHA world.

Ben

 

[liznindy]

If anyone is interested in what the handbook has to say (4150-2, pgs 3-10,11)



"Unacceptable Conditions:
The following water well conditions are unacceptable and must be noted in VC-4:

....'properties served by springs, lakes, rivers, or cisterns'"


However, per appraisers' F&Q's on the HUD website,

Question #22 refers to whether there are exceptions to cisterns being used as the water source.

Answer: HOC has authority to consider case-by-case waivers where cisterns are typical. Lender is to contact HOC for waiver procedure.



HOWEVER<

The property I am talking about is connected to public water and sewer. The cistern is no longer in use. Seems to me that the prescence of the cistern should not be a problem.

 

[Don Clark]

B) Ben,

Believe it or not I am not disagreeing with you relative to requiring what is necessary to meet MPS. But, I do not agree that the appraiser is the final arbitrar. The DEU is. My comments generally are along the line and intended for those who believe they have to "fix" a problem. We report problems, repairs, safety, soundness, and sanitation issues. We do not have any authority to "fix" anything.

Now, must quit the forum for a few days, finish my work, and leave to go to New Orleans this PM for Valuation2005.

 

[Brad Gillispie]

In my area there are several areas that have shared springs or wells. With the recent drought in Colorado several of these dried up requiring people to install cisterns. From an FHA issue, I believe the old cistern not an issue as long as it is not a saftey hazard e.g. a child could fall in a hole, etc.

FHA's big thing is the marketability of such properties in the market area. IF you have a couple comparables that show that they do exist and do support value, it has not been an issue.

 

[Ben Vukicevich SRA]

Don

The FHA appraiser has the authority to require repairs or as you have changed the term to "fix " anything that does not meet MPS and that does not require a state license to repair or observe.

I can require a homeowner to fix a broken window, to fix a broken door, to fix a auto garage door opener that does not work properly, etc. I can not require a homeowner to fix or repair anything that requires a license to repair. I can not require a homeowner to fix a heater. I can call for a cert that it is to be made properly operational but that's it. I'm not licensed in heater repair so that problem gets thrown to an expert. If I see a plumbing leak, I report the leak and then I use that MPS deficiency to require a certification from a plumber that the plumbing system is operational and free from leaks. If I see a roof leak or missing shingles, I require a roof certification that all leaks have been repaired and that the roof has a two year remaining life.

When I complete the CIR, I am the final "judge" as to whether the repairs or fixes required meet MPS not the DEU. The DEU only reviews the certifications, if any, required by the appraiser for acceptability to HUD/FHA. The appraiser is responsible for clearing MPS repair items/fixes that do not require certifications.

Have a nice time in New Orleans.

Ben