Commercial Trainee Pay

[Deleted member 126639]

You have never heard of what? I can pay a person to fill out forms with no experience and pay them as a 1099. There are a ton of "services" that sell they fill out the forms in the residential world and they are all 1099.

You brought up nurses and accountants but did not expand further. My wife is an NP for 21 years and was an RN for ten before that. What is your point? Some nurses make $400,000 now working as travel nurses as 1099 employees.

A front end of a $2,500 appraisal report takes me 2 hours. All the technology is readily available at a nominal price or easily automated using free API services. What takes the work is researching comps and doing the analysis. Comp research, if done correctly, must be done by a professional. I have probably 50 brokers and developers who will give me what I need in an hour. I am friends with two heads of regional research at national brokerage firms. How can paying someone minimum wage help me?

A direct cap income approach takes 45 minutes, maybe 3 hours if Argus is required. I've tried outsourcing Argus and they make too many mistakes.

If you are an old man using a secretary to use a typewriter or type up handwritten notes, you're behind the times. Thats about the only legit use of a contractor. Hiring a trainee is an investment.

As for wages you are claiming a fair wage for a trainee appraiser is identical to the minimum offered by companies like Starbucks, Amazon, and Costco. Appraisal is arguably more difficult than accounting and nursing, yet kids out of college in the lowest cost of living places in the nation start at double what you believe is fair.

I simply don't see how this profession will survive the retirement of the original FIRREA crowd with the pay structure you believe is normal. Maybe you live in the Upper Peninsula? Fees in Detroit do not jive with your numbers. I've personally made $400.000 in the past and I've always started trainees at $60k and put them on a 35 percent split. Are you claiming appraisal should be considered similar to a Starbucks Barrista?

 

[Deleted member 152047]

$50-$60k for base draw with negotiable split at 30%-35%. I agree with @NewHavenMAI, finding good trainees is extremely difficult currently. I'd also add that the trainee should have the ability to bill $200k+ per annum, which is really the number that the trainee should look at. If they go to a shop where people are billing $150k, then they should move on and find a better opportunity.

 

[RCA]

I am a residential appraiser & have no experience with the commercial end of appraising. I have a family member who finished classes and is being offered a commercial trainee job in Philadelphia. Appraiser offering job is telling him to tell him how much he wants to be paid. Can someone in the commercial end of appraising tell me what one just starting out as a trainee could expect to be paid? Thanks for your help!

I've heard very bad things about CBRE - like 25% commission. When I was there it was 40% - which I never liked at all. I think the most experienced appraisers get maybe 50%. And it is not just a question of % commission. Trainees get the messy assignments that take more time, have more risk, and are assignments more experienced appraisers have totally messed up.

Basically, you work for nothing. In fact, all in all, considering the expense of living, you will likely go in debt as a trainee.

There are much better jobs elsewhere for someone starting out.

But if you like appraisal, if you are willing to stick with it to the end, maybe it is worth the sacrifice early on. - And add this: If you can also work until you are 80 or so, it may be worth it. In the latter half of your life, you should be able to do reasonably well, if you are willing to work 60 hours a week. So, it is a job more suited to a single person. A lot of appraisers, who are married, don't stay that way.

 

[RCA]

I've heard very bad things about CBRE - like 25% commission. When I was there it was 40% - which I never liked at all. I think the most experienced appraisers get maybe 50%. And it is not just a question of % commission. Trainees get the messy assignments that take more time, have more risk, and are assignments more experienced appraisers have totally messed up.

Basically, you work for nothing. In fact, all in all, considering the expense of living, you will likely go in debt as a trainee.

There are much better jobs elsewhere for someone starting out.

But if you like appraisal, if you are willing to stick with it to the end, maybe it is worth the sacrifice early on. - And add this: If you can also work until you are 80 or so, it may be worth it. In the latter half of your life, you should be able to do reasonably well, if you are willing to work 60 hours a week. So, it is a job more suited to a single person. A lot of appraisers, who are married, don't stay that way.

Note - it is not just CBRE I have heard bad things about with regard to trainees. I have heard worse about some smaller outfits in the SF Bay Area run by MAIs - going back many years. And in fact, the whole climate is not that great for appraisers. It is very competitive. Generally speaking, the appraisers at the top of the food chain take the decent jobs - and the s__t goes to the ones lower down on the food chain. That is the law of the land, and you will here something to the effect - "You have to pay your dues."

As opposed to that, if you start work out of college as a software engineer, you will be treated very very nicely and get the best work they figure you can handle.

As job rankings go, appraisal is way down on the totem pole.

 

[Deleted member 126639]

$50-$60k for base draw with negotiable split at 30%-35%. I agree with @NewHavenMAI, finding good trainees is extremely difficult currently. I'd also add that the trainee should have the ability to bill $200k+ per annum, which is really the number that the trainee should look at. If they go to a shop where people are billing $150k, then they should move on and find a better opportunity.

$60K in a lot of Florida is enough to live well at 22, but in the NYC tristate area? No. These people talking about $30K? Incredible.

But hell, are there really shops down there where appraisers on average are billing $12K per month? Horrible.

 

[Salty]

A certified residential appraiser I know decided to go commercial. Valbridge paid him $40,000 - $45,000 a year as a trainee. I don't remember exactly when this was but it was over 5 years ago, but not as long as 10 years ago.

 

[Michael S]

I've heard very bad things about CBRE - like 25% commission. When I was there it was 40% - which I never liked at all. I think the most experienced appraisers get maybe 50%. And it is not just a question of % commission. Trainees get the messy assignments that take more time, have more risk, and are assignments more experienced appraisers have totally messed up.

Basically, you work for nothing. In fact, all in all, considering the expense of living, you will likely go in debt as a trainee.

There are much better jobs elsewhere for someone starting out.

But if you like appraisal, if you are willing to stick with it to the end, maybe it is worth the sacrifice early on. - And add this: If you can also work until you are 80 or so, it may be worth it. In the latter half of your life, you should be able to do reasonably well, if you are willing to work 60 hours a week. So, it is a job more suited to a single person. A lot of appraisers, who are married, don't stay that way.

I started at 33% and went to 40% after 6-9 months as a newly certified CG. Basically, when I could show that my work didn't need any more review than a seasoned appraiser. If I had finished my MAI I would have been at 45% and it capped out at 50% for those who were billing $400k+ or so (I don't recall the exact figure and it's probably changed in the 5 years or so I've been gone). However, those at 50% were probably bringing in work and they would get a small percentage cut of the fee.

I was only billing about $150k/year - though with my National Guard duty it caused me to lose about a month per year as I had to finish up any assignment before annual training, then ramp back up after I returned. Other appraisers in my region (mostly in larger markets) were billing $40-50k/month on a regular basis - though that was often with a trainee contributing (and costing them the equivalent of about $10k in billings). Of course working in a relatively large non-disclosure state with limited data made everything harder - and the fees were rarely that much higher to compensate. I recall many days driving 3-5 hours each way to go inspect a property. Even if I could get two inspections on one trip that ate up a whole day. But I realized within a few years that I was never going to bill $200-300k/year in my market. I just couldn't dial down my standards to crank out reports that were good enough and spent 50% more time to get it from 85% to 95%.

 

[sputnam]

Consider that a very effi ient appraisal office will need at least 35% of the fee to pay for rent, phones, cleaning, administrative help, internet, electricity, data services, management, and hopefully... a little bit of profit etc. Many offices witll need 40% If the office pays you a fee split of more than 60-65%, it is losing money.

 

[RCA]

I started at 33% and went to 40% after 6-9 months as a newly certified CG. Basically, when I could show that my work didn't need any more review than a seasoned appraiser. If I had finished my MAI I would have been at 45% and it capped out at 50% for those who were billing $400k+ or so (I don't recall the exact figure and it's probably changed in the 5 years or so I've been gone). However, those at 50% were probably bringing in work and they would get a small percentage cut of the fee.

I was only billing about $150k/year - though with my National Guard duty it caused me to lose about a month per year as I had to finish up any assignment before annual training, then ramp back up after I returned. Other appraisers in my region (mostly in larger markets) were billing $40-50k/month on a regular basis - though that was often with a trainee contributing (and costing them the equivalent of about $10k in billings). Of course working in a relatively large non-disclosure state with limited data made everything harder - and the fees were rarely that much higher to compensate. I recall many days driving 3-5 hours each way to go inspect a property. Even if I could get two inspections on one trip that ate up a whole day. But I realized within a few years that I was never going to bill $200-300k/year in my market. I just couldn't dial down my standards to crank out reports that were good enough and spent 50% more time to get it from 85% to 95%.

From what I could see, commercial appraisers in the mid-west do pretty well, compared to California, especially when you consider the cost of living difference. All I know is what I'm told by commercial appraisers as of two years ago. And, they weren't happy at all.