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Comp Added After Effective Date. MLS Photo Ok?

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Cruiznblue

Freshman Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Professional Status
Certified Residential Appraiser
State
California
I recently completed an FHA assignment...with 6 comps (all with my own original photos). However when I was completing the assignment (the next day...after the effective/inspection date), I decided to add one additional closed sale to further bracket a subject feature. I therefore used an MLS photo for that additional comp.

Now lender is asking for an original photo.

My question is...as an appraiser who wants to further/better support their report...is there any flexibility on these MLS photos with FHA? With all the unknowns we run into during inspections...are we really expected to have pre-selected the perfect comps prior to inspection in order to meet this requirement every time?

I would think there needs to be some flexibility here with being able to use a single MLS photo for a comp added after the effective date here and there. It's not like I used MLS photos for all 7 comparables.
 
I don't know if you're asking would I got back out and get take an original photo-yes, I would.....
Or
Are you asking if I can always pre-select perfect comps-no I can't....

As an aside.....
That had to be some major physical characteristic that the subject had that required a 7th comp to bracket....
Do you mind sharing which physical characteristic the 7th comp bracketed?
 
The lender is correct, drive by the comp and take the photo.
 
are we really expected to have pre-selected the perfect comps prior to inspection in order to meet this requirement every time?

Are you saying that you have all your comps pre-selected before all of your inspections and never have to go back out and inspect comps? If that is what you are saying then you live in a world most of us would love to live in. It is common that we inspect, go back to office and select comps and then go drive comps a different day.
 
I recently completed an FHA assignment...with 6 comps (all with my own original photos). However when I was completing the assignment (the next day...after the effective/inspection date), I decided to add one additional closed sale to further bracket a subject feature. I therefore used an MLS photo for that additional comp.

Now lender is asking for an original photo.

My question is...as an appraiser who wants to further/better support their report...is there any flexibility on these MLS photos with FHA? With all the unknowns we run into during inspections...are we really expected to have pre-selected the perfect comps prior to inspection in order to meet this requirement every time?

I would think there needs to be some flexibility here with being able to use a single MLS photo for a comp added after the effective date here and there. It's not like I used MLS photos for all 7 comparables.

What are you doing? 7 comps? You do this every time? What's a matter with you? Why not upload the entire MLS then?

You dug that hole, go clean it up. O, and thanks for helping to dig a bigger hole for all of us too.

Three comparable sales is the recognized number of sales that are adequate to provide reasonable market evidence in a mortgage appraisal and most all appraisals. USPAP does not require any number of comparable sales, only that we provide market evidence. You are not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by giving your services away for free. It is a farce that your extra efforts will equate to higher earnings as our fees are set from the borrowers ability/willingness to pay, not from a relation between what we do and how much that ought to pay. Think about it. All you are doing is setting a higher standard for everyone to follow and once it in fact becomes the standard, the gains in volume you think you are getting now will disappear and what you will be left with is less money per hour and, so will all of us.

USPAP says you must first identify the subject property. Then you must research and analyze the relevant market data. You are trying to save a few minutes/hours by not driving the comps out later and selecting them prior to identifying the subject. It is possible you are not in compliance with USPAP when you do this because, you might be trying to make your subject fit the comps instead of selecting your comps to fit the subject. As an attempt to fix this, maybe you are putting more comps in your report likely because, the comps you picked ended up not being the most physically, functionally and locationally similar. Sound about right? Or are you going to go back to the argument you are simply trying to provide a better product?

What I would suggest, is you charge more for starters and stop giving away services for free. Get a laptop, go find some wi-fi near your subject and search comps after you inspect the subject. It's nice, you might like it. Have a bit of lunch and work. Then put no more than the three best comps you can in the report and tell the client to pound sand when they ask for more, unless they agree to pay you MORE for the ADDITIONAL service BECAUSE, it is expensive to drive out new comps.

O and by the way, unless your comps are different from each other in only one aspect, bracketing features does not support the rate of an individual adjustment. Whoever came up with that should be tarred and feathered. Bracket the opinion of value with closed sale prices, hopefully yes. Bracket each and every feature, gfys. That last one aint even a matter of money, just a matter of being impossible more than 99% of the time.

The problem is, the low fee structure does not support the requirement to inspect the comparable sales from the street IF, we are also to select and use the comparable sales that are the MOST physically, functionally and locationally similar to the subject. To truly make this work, we have to do the comp search after we inspect the subject in most all cases. The alternative would be to select a bunch of possible comps and then pick the best three, but we all know that does not work all the time and it always requires more work on the front end.

The other alternative would be to remove the requirement to inspect the comparable sales from the street. This was a good requirement 30 years ago, but is mostly a moot exercise in today's digital world. Then, appraisers could select the best three comps from their desk after they get back from the inspection. Not everyone agrees with this, but there is no arguing the current requirement is expensive and the money to pay for it is not there.
 
The 4000.1 states that original photos of the comparable sales is required. Either go out and take the photo or remove the comp. from the report. As for pre-selecting comparable sales: I do it all the time and take a wide range of comps.. I usually have enough to get the appraisal done, but every once in a while I am way off and have to make a 2nd trip out to take more comp. Photos. It is just part of the job.
 
I allow time AFTER an inspection to select and drive comps. I use my phone or laptop with hotspot to search and select comps after inspection. Don't do it every time, but only when it will help save a lot of driving.

WHEN the comp is selected to be placed into the report is immaterial. And guess what, if the U/W comes back and requests an 8th comp, they will want a live comp pic of that too. Its the ticket price to ride the FHA roller coaster.

Fannie and FHA have access to all the same data (MLS, county records) that you use, so don't try to fool them either, or you may find yourself checking your email for orders 50 times a day. :)

If subject is too far away to easily get comp pics within your normal work flow, either charge more up front, or decline the assignment.

Now, I am not a 100% live comp purist, but I do believe we should at least do what we are affirming in our certifications. If you are using a 1004 form, please read the pre-printed Scope of Work, #3. You are affirming that you have done this. :)
 
Your in California and so we share the same Santa-Ana HOC Unfortunately they have been pretty hard on this issue so I would suck it up and go back out.
 
What are you doing? 7 comps? You do this every time? What's a matter with you? Why not upload the entire MLS then?

You dug that hole, go clean it up. O, and thanks for helping to dig a bigger hole for all of us too.

Three comparable sales is the recognized number of sales that are adequate to provide reasonable market evidence in a mortgage appraisal and most all appraisals. USPAP does not require any number of comparable sales, only that we provide market evidence. You are not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by giving your services away for free. It is a farce that your extra efforts will equate to higher earnings as our fees are set from the borrowers ability/willingness to pay, not from a relation between what we do and how much that ought to pay. Think about it. All you are doing is setting a higher standard for everyone to follow and once it in fact becomes the standard, the gains in volume you think you are getting now will disappear and what you will be left with is less money per hour and, so will all of us.

USPAP says you must first identify the subject property. Then you must research and analyze the relevant market data. You are trying to save a few minutes/hours by not driving the comps out later and selecting them prior to identifying the subject. It is possible you are not in compliance with USPAP when you do this because, you might be trying to make your subject fit the comps instead of selecting your comps to fit the subject. As an attempt to fix this, maybe you are putting more comps in your report likely because, the comps you picked ended up not being the most physically, functionally and locationally similar. Sound about right? Or are you going to go back to the argument you are simply trying to provide a better product?

What I would suggest, is you charge more for starters and stop giving away services for free. Get a laptop, go find some wi-fi near your subject and search comps after you inspect the subject. It's nice, you might like it. Have a bit of lunch and work. Then put no more than the three best comps you can in the report and tell the client to pound sand when they ask for more, unless they agree to pay you MORE for the ADDITIONAL service BECAUSE, it is expensive to drive out new comps.

O and by the way, unless your comps are different from each other in only one aspect, bracketing features does not support the rate of an individual adjustment. Whoever came up with that should be tarred and feathered. Bracket the opinion of value with closed sale prices, hopefully yes. Bracket each and every feature, gfys. That last one aint even a matter of money, just a matter of being impossible more than 99% of the time.

The problem is, the low fee structure does not support the requirement to inspect the comparable sales from the street IF, we are also to select and use the comparable sales that are the MOST physically, functionally and locationally similar to the subject. To truly make this work, we have to do the comp search after we inspect the subject in most all cases. The alternative would be to select a bunch of possible comps and then pick the best three, but we all know that does not work all the time and it always requires more work on the front end.

The other alternative would be to remove the requirement to inspect the comparable sales from the street. This was a good requirement 30 years ago, but is mostly a moot exercise in today's digital world. Then, appraisers could select the best three comps from their desk after they get back from the inspection. Not everyone agrees with this, but there is no arguing the current requirement is expensive and the money to pay for it is not there.

The correct number of comparables is not 3, 5, 7, 100 or whatever number you pick. The correct number of comparables is how many it takes to adequately support your value opinion.
 
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