Conditional Use Permit = "legal, Non-conforming"?

[CANative]

A special dispensation to build something new that benefits The City but doesn't conform with current zoning? Non-conforming. But that's not what we're talking about.

 

[Doug DeMars]

I think I know what you're talking about. I just don't buy the concept that a CUP (or other variance from a zoning use by right) changes the conforming status. It does however change its legal status. To be conforming, a use has to be in-line with the development standards of the code. Any deviation from the standard makes it non-conforming. And that non-conformance is either legal or not. A CUP makes the deviation legal...regardless if the CUP remains in place for the current owner or indefinitely.

IMO

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

Let me ask all of you something. You speak as though you are all reading the same code. I have never appraised in California. I have no idea how they are set up. In the Midwest zoning is set by three basic governments, 1) local which is considered the city, town, village,etc., 2) township, and 3) county. Depending on where the property is located depends on the code. All of these places have completely different codes. Some use completely different terms for very similar issues. It is really strange to me that you are acting if there is one defined word for issues as if you are talking about some universal code. At first I thought Denis and CANative were from the same municipality speaking about the same code. I do not understand how you make such subtle distinctions if you are reading various codes.

 

[CANative]

Sounds like it is the same as here. If a property is located in an incorporated city or town then they have their own zoning ordinances. If they are not located in an incorporated city or town then County zoning is used.

Denis lives and works primarily in the San Francisco East Bay. Say he is appraising a property in the City of Livermore in Alameda County. They have their own zoning ordinance. If the property is outside of the city limits then the Zoning authority is the County of Alameda. For example.

I live in Mendocino County in the City of Ukiah. If the property is inside the city limits then city zoning controls. If it is outside of the city limits but still in Ukiah, then County zoning controls. In some ways they may be similar, but not exactly the same and in some cases they can be very different.

We work together frequently so I have some familiarity with his areas. But I also invest a lot of reading time about zoning in many areas.

But that doesn't really change the dynamics of the problem in question. A basic zoning district can have many "flavors" and under each of those flavors there are many variations on a flavor. A C1 district which allows for seveal commercial uses by right (allowable uses is a newish term for the same thing) may also allow for other uses but those uses need a use permit, and some of the use permits are conditional (a CUP). If it's a permitted use then by definition it is a conforming use.

 

[CANative]

It looks like you'se guys call Conditional Uses "Special Uses."

From the Chicago code:

 

[Doug DeMars]

I'm going to back-peddle here. However, this is not to say that other municipalities approach conformance or non-conformance in the same manner. I would guess that each jurisdiction may treat the same scenarios in different ways. It seems to me when looking at most municipal codes in the Bay Area, the cities use the term "Conditional Use Permit" CUP most often. I thought I read of one where it is noted as an AUP "Administrative Use Permit" and I'm fairly sure I saw one or two that calls these variances a SUP (special use permit). Per the Oakland municode within the definitions section:

• "Nonconforming activity" means an activity which, under the zoning regulations, is not itself a permitted activity where it is located or does not conform to the off-street parking or loading requirements, performance standards, or other requirements applying to activities. However, an activity of the character described above shall not be deemed a nonconforming activity to the extent that it has been or is hereafter authorized by a subsisting conditional use permit, variance, or other special zoning approval.
  
  "Nonconforming facility" means a facility which, under the zoning regulations, is not itself a permitted facility where it is located or does not conform to the density, floor-area ratio, height, yard, court, landscaping or screening, or usable open space requirements; limitations on Signs; or other requirements applying to facilities. However, a facility of the character described above shall not be deemed a nonconforming facility to the extent that it has been or is hereafter authorized by a subsisting conditional use permit, variance, or other special zoning approval.
  
  "Nonconforming use" means a nonconforming activity or a nonconforming facility.
  

 

[CANative]

In the original scenario the appraiser deemed the use "non-conforming" simply because there was a CUP associated with it.

 

[Mike Kennedy]

City of Oakland, CA

Chapter 17.134 - Conditional Use Permit Procedure (and other sections governing CUPs)

https://www.municode.com/library/ca/oakland/codes/planning_code?nodeId=TIT17PL_CH17.134COUSPEPR

 

[CANative]

Exactly. Condition Use Permits don't mean non-conformity.

 

[Stephen J. Vertin MAI]

It looks like you'se guys call Conditional Uses "Special Uses."

From the Chicago code:

View attachment 26965

See my post 21, I know you said you did not read the post when you came on but I already noted what your are saying