Costco $4.99 chicken has preservatives

[J Grant]

Organic farms do not use Roundup or other toxic chemicals. They get inspected and have to comply with guidelines to keep their certification.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Well, a human being does not need a hazmat suit to enter a normal chicken coop, do they?

It's probably one way Avian flu is introduced and spread but mostly it is spread by wild birds, many species of which are not killed by Avian flu but rather are simply carriers.

As for me wearing a coverall (not a hazmat suit) that's to prevent me from tracking pathogens from one farm to another as well as to keep my clothing clean. Booties are the most important. CAFO standards apply to everything on farms - over 50 milk cows, 200 sheep, 40,000 birds or more (prior to 2000 or so few farms held more than 32,000 birds) and these are meant to control diseases. CAO standards are often state standards and vary from state to state.

It should fool no one to think small artisanal farms are "safer", or the meat produced is "better" or "safer." And the problem is that you do not feed 350 million people by growing a handful of chickens in the backyard. We'd all starve together while the rich would pay $10 for a chicken leg.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Organic farms do not use Roundup or other toxic chemicals

Do Organic Farms Use Chemicals?

Organic farmers regularly use chemicals that are approved for use by organic regulatory bodies. Some of these chemicals can be toxic.

www.scienceabc.com

Organic farmers, like all other farmers, need to make sure that their crops have adequate nutrition, and are protected when diseases and pests attack the crops.​

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To ensure their crops return a decent yield, organic farming regulation programs allow organic farmers to add certain nutrients and spray pesticides on their farms. There are natural and some synthetic chemicals that organic growers are allowed to use, and there are exceptions.​

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For example, in the US, the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) has developed a National Organic Growers’ Handbook where it lists the natural and synthetic chemicals that organic growers are allowed to use. A quick review of this list shows that it includes chemicals such as sulphur, copper, iron compounds, magnesium compounds, potassium compounds, enzymes, and many more.​

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Similarly, the EU has a list of approved substances that organic growers are allowed to use. This list also includes chemicals like copper, sulphur, calcium hydroxide and various others.​

 

[J Grant]

AI Overview
While not always legally mandated annually by certification agencies,
many organic farmers test their soil every year, or at least every 2–3 years, to monitor nutrient levels and soil health. Annual testing is highly recommended in high-management, high-yield organic systems—such as vegetable production—to ensure effective nutrient management and organic matter maintenance.
ouTube +3
Key Soil Testing Factors for Organic Farms:

• Why Annual Testing? Since organic farmers rely on compost, cover crops, and natural fertilizers rather than synthetic chemicals, annual tests help track if these methods are effectively building soil health, improving carbon levels, and providing adequate nutrients without over-applying manure or compost.
• Optimal Timing: Soil is typically tested in the fall after the final harvest or in early spring before planting to assess nutrient depletion.
• Organic Certification: While inspectors focus heavily on the processes (e.g., no prohibited pesticides), soil and nutrient management practices are heavily scrutinized annually.
• Variable Testing:If the soil is stable, testing every 2–3 years may be acceptable, but if significant deficiencies are identified, annual sampling is required to monitor improvements.
  SDA Agricultural Marketing Service (.gov) +5

In summary, regular soil testing is crucial for successful organic farming, with many opting for annual testing to ensure long-term sustainability.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

Optimal Timing: Soil is typically tested in the fall after the final harvest or in early spring before planting to assess nutrient depletion.

That's pretty much when one applies potash and phosphorus everywhere. Nitrogen is applied when the crop needs it as most nitrogen sources dissolve quickly. The slowest absorption of nitrogen is from litter and again the organic farm risks using litter from a farm where the litter contains some chemicals. Chicken litter, of course, would contain any unused chemical that was in that litter, so using their own litter or other organic farm litter would be the best. The rice, shavings, or straw used for bedding might contain chemicals. The feeds fed that are excreted will contain traces of any chemical in the feed, etc.

regular soil testing is crucial for successful organic farming

No farmer worth their salt isn't going to test their soils. I do. I also have a 5 year farm plan created by the USDA (free.) They recommend no more than 2 tons of chicken litter per acre per year. I probably average 1 ton largely due to a high phosphorus level that is largely due to our soil types and crops. The soils here are acidic and require lime to be added every 10-15 years at 2-3 tons per acre.

In western Oklahoma and Kansas wheat absorbs high amounts of phosphorus and the soil acidity is much lower so it absorbs phosphorus. Phosphorus quickly bonds with the soil and does not move. Nitrogen is mobile and will contaminate waterways if applied too early. And there is a difference in cool weather grasses (like fescue, winter wheat, and orchard grass) and warm weather grasses like Bermuda or Bahia grass. You can apply fall nitrogen to cool-weather grass but if you apply nitrogen to warm weather grasses you will have a weed problem and lose most of the benefit of nitrogen. Old rule of thumb. Phosphorus grows the berries (grain), Potash grows the roots, and nitrogen fuels the stem and growth.

 

[IlliniApp]

Wise move. When they tested some organic labeled foods against conventional they found no difference. You also run into issues with cross-contamination. Someone starting organic farm may be contaminated from farms upwind who are not organic. Same with GMO crops. People get contaminated with patented GMO products then get sued by the maker if they attempt to use the seeds in their own farm.

For meat to be certified as organic, doesn't it have to be raised on feedstuffs also certified organic? I've always thought that would be the easiest to circumvent.

 

[IlliniApp]

I'm anxiously awaiting the "Optimal Windows for applying Chicken or Hog Manure on cropland in a 50/50 corn-soy rotation" debate between Terrel and JGrant.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

For meat to be certified as organic, doesn't it have to be raised on feedstuffs

Yes indeed and sourcing same can be a PITA. We have some organic farms around here growing chickens but they have to bring feed in from Kansas and points north. I understand a few Amish farmers grow their own, don't certify anything and you probably get just as clean a meat as any organic farm can offer.

"Optimal Windows for applying Chicken or Hog Manure on cropland in a 50/50 corn-soy rotation"

You spread it on the days that the wind is optimal to annoy that jerk neighbor everyone has.

 

[IlliniApp]

Yes indeed and sourcing same can be a PITA. We have some organic farms around here growing chickens but they have to bring feed in from Kansas and points north. I understand a few Amish farmers grow their own, don't certify anything and you probably get just as clean a meat as any organic farm can offer.


You spread it on the days that the wind is optimal to annoy that jerk neighbor everyone has.

Going back to my days spreading hog manure, it pretty much stunk for everyone unfortunately.

 

[Terrel L. Shields]

it pretty much stunk for everyone unfortunately.

Liquid lagoon waste is far worse than dry litter. We had one farmer using effluent from a sewer plant but they were required to use fertilizer knives and inject into the soil about 5" deep or so.