Customary and reasonable fees - 90 days

[jnordquist]

This situation is up to us to solve. Here's what I suggest, set your fees at what ever you think is customary and reasonable and stick to it. I'm willing to bet the AMC's are not going to roll over and say "OK, here you go".

Before the HVCC I set a fee that I felt was reasonable and fair compensation, after the HVCC I kept the same fees, before the Consumer Protection Bill I had the same fee, after the Consumer Protection Bill I have the same fee+-. If I get the order at the fee I find acceptable I accept the order, if I don't I reject it.

I probably reject 5 orders a day at low fees, All of the broadcasts come over at $200 to $250 for a 1004/1004FHA, not enough, not worth my time. Counteroffer, refuse, reject. Very simple, they will get the message. I use the Alamode/Mercury Fee study, although I think the study is low for Allegheny County $275 (Pittsburgh and surrounding) I add a 1004MC fee and everything makes sense to me. $300-$350 is competitive for this market.

I just have a feeling that the TAVMA, large AMC's and large lenders have a few political tricks up their sleeves. If they do, use the same formula, set your fees, stick to them, reject if it is not fair, turn them in. Make them adjust to the situation, we have adjusted enough.

For those waiting for the AMC's to send out revised fee schedules to reflect reasonable and customary, I think you will be waiting a long time. Send them your revised fee schedule.

Jon N

 

[NORTON]

In five years many appraisers will not like the enforcement of Reasonable and Customary fees. The fees will not rise.

The government setting fees is socialistic and that is what the new law does........sets fees. Now that the idiot who accepted $175 fees is getting $350 he will be inclined to hire a "trainee" so he can make more. No need to visit the property (his "mentor" didn't). No need to visit the comps (his "mentor" didn't).

Appraisal fees are low partly because of supply and demand (the MARKET), partly because a former trainee can make the same or more working independently than they did in their mentor shop and partly because some appraisers are simply stupid.

The government should not be regulating fees although the bankers and scum AMC people deserve what they are getting.

exactly.....all of the above!

 

[Deleted member 128537]

Thank you jnordquist! If people think that some government law is going to change the way AMC's operate I have some oil rich land along the gulf to sell you! Everytime the government gets involved with regulating something they screw things up. For those of you that think this is going to work, "Show me one other place in our economic life where it has worked!" It hasn't! Setting base fees simply create an over supply of appraisers. Geez did anyone take economics at all? When you set base fees in the long run all prices will contunue to be low due to over supply. Look at farm prices and subsidies. When they set the base price it takes risk out of the market and more people enter the market creating an unnecessary over supply. We need to get rid of about 25% of the appraisers out there right now for the long run health of the business. Economics 101 states base price controls create over supply and in the long run depress the market. Too many want a short run fix for the long run disaster. The problem with the HVCC was that it created an oligopoly on the ordering side and that's why fees could be low, and that's because there are too many appraisers. Supply and demand folks. I can bet if the number of appraisers dropped 25% fees would rise significantly. The fact is there isn't enough work in the long run for the number of appraisers. Don't kid yourself AMC's will be able to pay what they want. They didn't pay well before the HVCC and they aren't going to after. It will be that way until the supply of appraisers diminish to meet the demand for appraisals. Economics anyone????

 

[rescom]

Thank you jnordquist! If people think that some government law is going to change the way AMC's operate I have some oil rich land along the gulf to sell you! Everytime the government gets involved with regulating something they screw things up. For those of you that think this is going to work, "Show me one other place in our economic life where it has worked!" It hasn't! Setting base fees simply create an over supply of appraisers. Geez did anyone take economics at all? When you set base fees in the long run all prices will contunue to be low due to over supply. Look at farm prices and subsidies. When they set the base price it takes risk out of the market and more people enter the market creating an unnecessary over supply. We need to get rid of about 25% of the appraisers out there right now for the long run health of the business. Economics 101 states base price controls create over supply and in the long run depress the market. Too many want a short run fix for the long run disaster. The problem with the HVCC was that it created an oligopoly on the ordering side and that's why fees could be low, and that's because there are too many appraisers. Supply and demand folks. I can bet if the number of appraisers dropped 25% fees would rise significantly. The fact is there isn't enough work in the long run for the number of appraisers. Don't kid yourself AMC's will be able to pay what they want. They didn't pay well before the HVCC and they aren't going to after. It will be that way until the supply of appraisers diminish to meet the demand for appraisals. Economics anyone????

Yes economics, we all get that. But here's a lesson in reality. It will be decades if ever before the number of appraisers drops 25% or more. Why? Several reasons. 1. There are no other jobs 2. Freedom 3. Why would skippy leave to work a minimum wage job with set hours when he can make the same as an appraiser 4. Nobody can retire in this economy.
You all better get used to the current environment without any gov intervention. To all of you that want to be independent appraisers, learn to deal with all of the cons that go along with being independent.

 

[Elliott]

I heard a story yesterday on the O'Riley Factor about a woman waiting for an
airplane and she noticed alcohol on the breath of the pilot. She mentioned it
to some of the other passengers. She told the flight attendant. Security
people came on board, take her off the plane, she returns, security types
come back on board and take the pilot off the plane, he comes back.
Security types come back on board the plane and take the woman off the
plane and tell her to take her bags. They inform the woman the pilot passed
his blood alcohol test and he wasn't comfortable with her on board. Woman
is allowed to take another flight.

That's pretty much how complaining about 'reasonable and customary' fees will
work under the federal system.

 

[Deleted member 128537]

RESCOM, I found another job. I'm no longer a full time appraiser because I said to heck with this crap. I do no mortgage appraisals any longer. NONE. What a blessing! You can sit back and complain or you can act. Have you actually looked for another job? Plus the job market isn't going to be this bad forever. And it is really mainly bad for low skilled people. Go back to school. I did when I was 40. Plus Obama will get his butt kicked out so that businesses aren't scared to death to hire people any longer. The Dems will get their butts kicked in November and stop this crazy idea that government can solve all our ills. And let me tell you that if the money is crap people look for greener pastures. It may take some time, but it will happen. In the meantime I decided if I was going to keep my sanity I was getting out of the business. So that means somebody in the area that I covered gets some extra work. Maybe he can raise his fees due to the extra demand. Good luck to him/her.

 

[haley123]

$450.00 is "REASONABLE AND CUSTOMARY"

First we must all stand together. It will be light years again before we have this much potential to have our voices be heard. We should not accept fees that are from the 1900's.

Invoice: $350.00-1004 Single Family
$50.00--Two Additional Listings
$50.00--1004MC

Total:---$450.00

Each item should be seperate. If they want to pay less take away which ever they choose to make the fee more reasonable for them and that will not cause them any fines. I also agree that everyone should stop training new appraisers or giving them any work until this matter is resolved. This is a very serious matter. We need industry related media and outside media to broadcast our fee concerns for our future. This has to be done now. We can't have a sit and wait attitude. We'll get a big fat nothing with that. Who ever speaks up and complains the loudest will get what they want. We expect much higher fees for the amount of work we perform and longer turn times. We need to be heard by the gereral public, not just in this forum. This should be done by every means possible and by the end of August and keep going until they can't take us any more or until we get what we want.

 

[olapp]

Why some appraisers are still thinking dealing with AMCs and hope they will pay higher fees? Its our hard earn money. JUST SAY NO! We need AMCs out period.

We need to do an appraisal that pay reasonable COD, not 30, 60, 90 days shiiiit! We are not slave.

My current job pays me $20/hr. I know I can sleep after work without dealing with crapy AMCs conditions. I won't go back do appraisal until the AMCs are competely death.

 

[jnordquist]

Why some appraisers are still thinking dealing with AMCs and hope they will pay higher fees? Its our hard earn money. JUST SAY NO! We need AMCs out period.

We need to do an appraisal that pay reasonable COD, not 30, 60, 90 days shiiiit!

My current job pays me $20/hr. I know I can sleep after work without dealing with crapy AMCs conditions. I won't go back do appraisal until the AMCs are competely death.

That's not going to happen, AMC's are here to stay. If you're waiting for AMC's to disappear before you start doing appraisal work again, you're not coming back.

Don't get me wrong, it would be nice if they are not here, but to be realalistic they are not going anywhere.

Jon N

 

[NC Appraising]

Several reasons. 1. There are no other jobs 2. Freedom 3. Why would skippy leave to work a minimum wage job with set hours when he can make the same as an appraiser 4. Nobody can retire in this economy.
.

In the boom time, skippy trainers took on every and anybody with a heartbeat. Appraising during the boom time was easy. Pull three comps and move on, no one cared. Now they all left and joined AMCs for 175 per appraisal, because it's better than cutting grass or working at Walmart.

Real estate agents and borrowers have a right to be upset. All these newbies that are now doing most of the work, because the AMCs they work for control 80% of the biz. Anyone can fill out a form and put a number on it. Couple that with having to cover 5 counties and do 2 day just to survive.


And we wonder why re agents and borrowers are so upset. We have a bunch of form fillers running around pre-tending to be appraisers. If you do not believe me, hang around the FHA forum for awhile. I was glad to see HUD raise the bar.....:new_all_coholic: